Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Research Fail

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  • Just thinking,

    I think those posts of Burns actually show his ignorance of the issues, but it is bad form to pass judgement while he has personal issues.

    It's not just about green fields and brown water. As big an issue, if not bigger is the soil itself and the impact intensive production will have on it - see Australia and the Murray.
    Salts draw to the surface by irrgation and of course seawater intrusion (which is already happening in Canty).

    The long term economics of another Kiwi Fruit boom and bust as farmers over invest in product is then sourced cheaper overseas - South America.

    Urban Rate payers subsidising rural industry of our precious water. Lets remeber the water is then made into powered and so is lost to the water cycle.

    I think Russel Norman is owning this issue, and has the depth of knowledge to be effective.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Ashby,

    @Just Thinking

    Urban Rate payers subsidising rural industry of our precious water. Lets remeber the water is then made into powered and so is lost to the water cycle.

    I get the sense of what you mean but you are wrong. If I eat some broccoli made using irrigated water that water is not 'lost from the water cycle'. It will re-enter it through my urine, my faeces, my sweat, tears and breath. You might have an argument if the product is exported to the other hemisphere, but water will eventually find its own level.

    If you are thinking of the aquifers then that situation will be complicated by the saltwater intrusion but aquifers can get refilled and if they have no outlet their water will not be part of the cycle except on very long terms anyway.

    Dundee, Scotland • Since May 2007 • 425 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    If only it were the beautiful (and easy to grow) brassica, and if sold and consumed in the same area it would return to the same water cycle.

    95% of the NZ Dairy is exported and therefore lost to our water cycle. The vast majority of that as milk powder, and so requiring more water.

    The irrigated water (stored or pumped from aquifers) will adversely affect the soil by drawing up salts. This is the vast majority of water used in Canterbury.

    Aquifers may refill, but if seawater intrusion has occured, it is already refilling. The fresh water sits on top allowing for more and more take, drawing the seawater further inland and higher & higher. As in Florida (scary bed time stories).

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    95% of the NZ Dairy is exported and therefore lost to our water cycle. The vast majority of that as milk powder, and so requiring more water.

    How does dehydrating milk in NZ and exporting the dried result cause a loss of water in NZ? If anything by that measure, milk powder exports should be encouraged over fruit and meat exports.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    On the bright side, the UK Govt seems to have taken a positive step in an evidence based (or lack thereof) direction with their latest move on homeopathy.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Jeremy they all remove water from our water cycle. The milk powder requires more water on arrival, so more expensive of this prescious resource. And of course the extra energy/pollution for its processing.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Jeremy they all remove water from our water cycle. The milk powder requires more water on arrival, so more expensive of this prescious resource. And of course the extra energy/pollution for its processing.

    I'm not sure if adding the litre of local water back to the milk powder is the bit of the dairy process that we should be attacking. That's probably about as efficient as exporting of a pretty essential food group can be.

    It's the umpteen litres of water it takes to produce a litre of milk that is the issue, plus the umpteen more litres of our waterways that get damaged.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Russell, something seems to be bung with David's last blog.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I think David decided to retract it

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    It's the umpteen litres of water it takes to produce a litre of milk that is the issue, plus the umpteen more litres of our waterways that get damaged.

    Agree there, it takes a lot of water to make milk. And intensive dairying can have nasty effects on the environment. There is extensive research being done on mitigating both those issues.

    But it does not remove water from our water cycle, except very locally. The umpteen litres of water it takes to make a litre of milk goes towards either irrigating the land growing the grass for the cows; for the cows to drink; in the cowshed; and in the factories. The first three are all very close to the source, its not only not leaving the water cycle, its not even leaving the watershed. The factory is generally within 100km of the farm, so the water (again not leaving the NZ water cycle) ends up slightly further away from where it would have otherwise.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Ur - available water for human consumption?
    What happens with intensive dairyfarming is degraded water worth buggerall.

    Just thinking is right- what is a national - and personal(local citizenry natural resource )has become a pirated buy&sell takeover.

    Islander, working on curse poems against these shitheads-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Caleb D'Anvers,

    [I]t[']s not only not leaving the water cycle, it[']s not even leaving the watershed. The factory is generally within 100km of the farm, so the water (again not leaving the NZ water cycle) ends up slightly further away from where it would have otherwise.

    Sure, but in what condition is it when it gets there? What additional goodies is it carrying back to the watercourses? What role is it playing in soil erosion and the subsequent compromise of riverine and estuarine ecosystems? I'm not sure that you can mitigate those effects to any great degree. Dairying's not only thirsty; it's also dirty.

    London SE16 • Since Mar 2008 • 482 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    Sure, but in what condition is it when it gets there? ... Dairying's not only thirsty; it's also dirty.

    True. What I was pointing out is that exporting milk powder overseas does not equate to shipping our water out of the country. Whatever the effects dairying has on water quality, it doesn't remove it from NZ.

    What additional goodies is it carrying back to the watercourses? What role is it playing in soil erosion and the subsequent compromise of riverine and estuarine ecosystems? I'm not sure that you can mitigate those effects to any great degree.

    From AgResearch: If it wins the appropriate research funding, the Tokanui Dairy Research Farm aims to:
    * Reduce nitrogen leaching from farming systems by 15-20 kg nitrogen per hectare and maintain that each year till 2020;


    Research confirms herbicide runoff may contaminate New Zealand waterways
    Monday, 1 May 2006
    Research by AgResearch on herbicide runoff from hill country pasture has produced information that could ultimately be used to help reduce contamination of New Zealand waterways.


    Cow urine leads to nitrogen in waterways
    Saturday, 1 July 2006
    It is commonly thought that leaching of nitrogen (N) fertiliser is the main cause of nutrient enrichment in Lakes Rotorua and Rotoiti but AgResearch scientists have found this is not the case.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

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