Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: One man’s Meat Puppets is another man’s Poison

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  • Ross Mason,

    After 350 posts is it time to announce a possible winne? As in - no mentions as far as I can recall?

    Led Zep Rules!!!

    And no Stairway!!!!

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    Ahah, I would actually vote for Misty Mountain Hop as probably one of the more embarrassing moments of stadium rock. :-)

    But despite it being mangled by generations of 16-year-olds with 2-fingered chords on untuned guitars, I still rate Stairway. Smoke on the Water, on the other hand, is a bit borderline...

    Also, for those of us mostly on mobile devices right now, could any further submissions include artist/song description?

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Scott Chris,

    I don't buy that argument.

    Good, because it wasn't an argument as such - just a reason why most prog doesn't work *for me*, as I said. If it's the kind of thing you like, then you'll like that sort of thing. But because I love pop, I tend to prefer the musical virtuosity serving a song and its hooks or melody, rather than being an end in itself. (I'm currently listening to the Yes track James posted and... it kind of makes me want to die. Heh.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Scott Chris,

    Sorry, most of the anti-prog sentiment basically boils down to jealousy imo. And as for switching time signature, well, was John Lennon pretentious? Or Radiohead?

    I assure you, it's not jealousy. Prog rock just has none of what I look for in popular music. I mean, who cares?

    John Lennon, on the other hand, poured out out the kind of truth and beauty that I am actually looking for.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to TracyMac,

    Also, for those of us mostly on mobile devices right now, could any further submissions include artist/song description?

    Yeah, sorry. Next time I have some money for the developers, the first job is to upgrade the built-in player here.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler, in reply to Scott Chris,

    If you define pretentiousness as "showing off to compensate for emotional insecurity" or "taking yourself too seriously" then nearly every human I've ever met is prone to the resulting affectations.

    How do you define "too seriously"? My take: you can enjoy "non-serious" music because it's good to dance to, or it's catchy, or it reminds you of that great weekend when you were 19, etc. But "serious" music you're supposed to enjoy because it says something you hadn't thought of before, or illuminates old things/experiences in a new way; and if it doesn't deliver on this, then it's as useless as a dance tune with no beat. "Too serious" art relies on delivering an insight which is either incoherent, obvious (thus depending as much on the artee as the artist) or false, without any other redeeming qualities.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 856 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to James Butler,

    I have something just for you, Danielle

    That something being 'Sound Chaser' by Yes.

    All I got from this was a vague sense of amusement. Apart from that, I found it pointless and irritating, perhaps because there's not even a pretense of the economy and emotional directness of rock 'n' roll. I would find being made to listen to this music for an extended period very challenging indeed.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    I really like this quote from the UK magazine The Word (April 2012) in an article on 'authenticity' in contemporary music, We're well aware that Bruce Springsteen is a 62-year-old gentleman farmer from rural New Jersey but we also expect him to persuade us that he is a hormonal twenty-something grease monkey on a runaway American dream. . it's part of the fun...Authenticity is the degree of belief the audience has in its own fantasies- [the last bit attributed to Wendy Fonarow]

    I guess the same could be said about good and bad music.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2560 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Biobbs,

    Because of the aforementioned iMobiledevices issue, I didn't realise that we were dissing McCartney via 'Coming Up'. Huh. Of all the songs to give McCartney shit about, that's not one I would have chosen (although admittedly the live version from Wings Over America is way better).

    John Lennon was often really pretentious or just plain addled ('hey George Martin, I want you to make my voice sound LIKE AN ORANGE'), but luckily he didn't really have the chops to get all musically proggy. He was a rock and roll essentialist by the 70s, anyway.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    We're well aware that Bruce Springsteen is a 62-year-old gentleman farmer from rural New Jersey but we also expect him to persuade us that he is a hormonal twenty-something grease monkey on a runaway American dream.

    With his latest album Wrecking Ball, I liken it to the grizzled veteran who's come out of retirement to get angry again.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Will de Cleene, in reply to Danielle,

    Worst McCartney song:

    As for prog, one person's bombast is another one's daydream. Depends what you're looking for in music, I suppose.

    Raumati • Since Jul 2011 • 107 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Hebe,

    Promise you don't bring Tom to our coffee-meet

    S'alright; I doubt he drinks...coffee. ;-)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Yes

    IMO, they are, generally, horrible.

    Check out this little Lennon gem...

    ... and then - if you dare - see what Yes did to it.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    How have I never heard this cover before? That riff-quote from 'Day Tripper' makes me want to KILL THEM ALL DEAD. Oh, can't you just hear them thinking to themselves how brilliant they are for incorporating it? Feh.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    This thread has really touched a nerve and what a lot of suggestions in a short space of time! I think I could cope with most of them, and can even bear the busking bagpiper outside the window every afternoon. But – and I apologise as I have mentioned this before – I have been tormented for the last 12 years by a CD which has proved unbreakable and impossible to lose or destroy. A certain member of the family remains a fan of Paul Holmes while fully realising the powerfully negative affect on anyone else forced to endure the same sound waves.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    But – and I apologise as I have mentioned this before – I have been tormented for the last 12 years by a CD which has proved unbreakable and impossible to lose or destroy. A certain member of the family remains a fan of Paul Holmes while fully realising the powerfully negative affect on anyone else forced to endure the same sound waves.

    That could be the last surviving copy of that particular album. I'd love to post a YouTube clip of his cover version of Eric Clapton's Wonderful Tonight ...

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 656 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    There isn't a single song on here that I don't genuinely enjoy.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews, in reply to George Darroch,

    There isn't a single song on here that I don't genuinely enjoy.

    Really? How about these:

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 656 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to philipmatthews,

    I'd love to post a YouTube clip of his cover version of Eric Clapton's Wonderful Tonight ...

    No you wouldn't.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to George Darroch,

    relativist

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    How about these?

    LOVE IT. There's no reason one shouldn't enjoy Maiden, Little River Band, Can, Creed, and Paul Holmes. Though that McCartney track, I think I actually draw the line there...

    relativist

    And proud.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Chris, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I mean, who cares?

    Well I do I guess. I’m sick of people misrepresenting the history of popular music by describing it in absolutist terms. So much of the narrative seems to be based on assumptions about what motivated various bands to produce the music they did rather that providing a relative description of a free market fashion phenomenon, which is what the music industry essentially is.

    So when people criticize music for being ‘progressive’, I’m inclined to leap to its defence because when you challenge someone to say exactly what it is about, say, Hotel California that they really don’t like, all they can say is “eww prog rock” which has as much analytical merit as saying “eww flared trousers”. It’s essentially a conditioned response.

    Perhaps I could illustrate my point with this Richard Thompson cover: (why does he give it cred? It’s the same song as Spears’)

    Auckland • Since Feb 2012 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    I don't get what point it is you're illustrating with the Thompson Britney Spears cover, though. (From his '1000 Years of Popular Music' shows, right? I saw him play in a club in Houston a decade or so ago and he was great. He's someone whose virtuosity - because wow, what a guitarist - is used in service of the songs rather than the other way around, so he appeals to me.)

    I suppose I think your 'that's a conditioned response!' argument isn't that relevant here. It's not as though all prog is being dismissed out of hand as worthless, for no reason. And hey, I *like* the fuckin' Eagles, to Lebowski-ise the thread.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews,

    Simply reveals what a great song it is. Like:

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 656 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Scott Chris,

    does he give it cred?

    Amongst which audiences? I reckon Britney has more cred for a recent pop song.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

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