Hard News: Not good enough, Eden Park
206 Responses
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Megan Wegan, in reply to
The gulf between lack of offense and being in assent is vast & nuanced.
Yes, but it's also not just how management saw it, but how it feels to be that person. When you're being verbally abused, your physical space invaded, and slurs thrown your way, and no one steps up to say "that's not cool"? Yeah, that feels like assent.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
I skimmed the front page for the highest-ranked comments and left it at that. The ignorati who read Your Views aren't going to get any better on subsequent pages.
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"chris", in reply to
Hannah was subject to unacceptable behaviour. Tapping on the head or whatever, no one is allowed to physically (or verbally) harass anyone else in a crowd. It may be difficult to police, but the principle is not at all difficult. It is very, very simple.
I don’t know. When I posted this on one of Hadyn’s Publicaddress RWC threads back in ’11:
You’d think. Everything seemed rosy until I chatted to a friend who’d been at the stadium with her 10 year old to watch their “first (and last) rugby game” ever. Harassment from a drunk group behind them, pulling their hair tipping off their hats and when challenged claiming – “I do whatever I want to do”. caused them to leave the game 20 minutes in, her son in tears.
On that occasion the antagonists were later kicked out of Eden Park. The only response that post got was:
I really think it’s a numbers stats game. Included, it’s a game of Rugby, commercial as it is, it is commercial. Welcome to our universe, Ireland won man :)
The difference a headline or two will make..
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Eden Park management could really learn something from Westpac, in this situation. They had a clear policy, and it made the game more enjoyable and more family friendly. Which can only mean more bums on seats. (Which, in this time of declining ticket numbers, can only be a good thing.)
All Black games are routinely sold out and Black Cap games in smaller grounds are 1/4 full.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I don’t know. When I posted this on one of Hadyn’s Publicaddress RWC threads back in ’11:
I'm not quite sure what Sofie was saying there, but I don't think she was saying harassment was okay. And as you noted, the perpetrators were kicked out, if belatedly. The park management seemed to understand its responsibilities that time.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
The two highest-rated (by far) comments on the front page are not supportive. Which I think is more indicative of positions on the matter.
I read the lot earlier. It seemed about 2-1 supportive, perhaps a little more.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
All Black games are routinely sold out and Black Cap games in smaller grounds are 1/4 full.
But Westpac Stadium ticket sales (rugby and The Phoenix) are tanking this year. Perhaps that’s focused their minds.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
However, if Eden Park managment think abuse based on sexual orientation is just fine and dandy then they should say so ...
I would hope Ms Morgan has had a serious talking-to today. She seems to have ... issues.
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"chris", in reply to
The were kicked out after they went to work on someone else, but yes, it was better handled. In total fairness to Sofie who I love, I was glad to get a response at all. I found the general lack of kind of intimidating. So I'm pleased you're giving this issue exposure Russell and I agree strongly with Emma's second paragraph.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
I’m not quite sure what Sofie was saying there,
No I wasn't condoning harassment. That is something I have had a fair share of and have learnt to stick up for myself. I was taught that if you remain honest, you will always win the moral high ground. and I was trying to convey that Rugby has its share of idiots that will rear their heads anyway because the size of support in this game is big and statistically in a country as small as NZ we will get idiots. Unfortunately these types are all over the world. I was also happy Ireland won. I'm part Irish. If I had been there t'other night and been near Hannah I would have stuck up for her and given those people an earful. Honestly, and honestly I wouldn't have been there. I'm not a fan of that sport. The RWC was different though. I enjoyed the buzz in the city so got with the program for that with my friends. Plus, I have no problem ever being asked what I mean so feel free please.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
In total fairness to Sofie who I love, I was glad to get a response at all.
Aw shucks :))
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Gareth Swain, in reply to
So we texted the security people
[A long-term overseas resident asks...]
You can text security? Really?!
That's a great idea. -
"chris", in reply to
Being indifferent,
…to verbal and physical abuse of a third party? Behaving indifferently for whatever reason, ok, hands tied etc, but actually “being indifferent”, I’m not sure if it’s assent but whatever that is, maximum props for having the stones to pull it out and wave it around.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
She seems to have … issues.
Yes but..... we can all have those days. Let's just hope she realises the stupidity of her statement and corrects herself for everyones benefit eh?
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Angus Robertson, in reply to
Party A says something, Party B disagrees, they exchange words.
If you are indifferent to the argument. To which side do you assent?
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"chris", in reply to
I’m afraid I’d need more specifics to inform my feeling on the situation there Angus.
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Keir Leslie, in reply to
It’s pretty standard at most major sports events here & in the UK, and I would have thought most places by now, no?
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Angus Robertson, in reply to
chris
Do you want the specifics available to people sitting in darkened and extremely distracting enviroment where information is hard to determine and interpret? Or would you prefer the specific and much more perfect info available to people debating the subject in minutae on the internet 3 or 4 days after the event?
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Gareth Swain, in reply to
Thanks for that, Kier.
It's not common here in Japan. Mind you, there doesn't seem to be much need for something like that here.
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Matt Smith, in reply to
If two people disagree and you're agnostic/disinterested that's fine so long as the two people have comparable power.
But that wasn't the case here.
But then they turned on her for the rest of the match, directing slurs in her ear, tapping her on the head and telling her not to go to the rugby again.
A group of 3 guys, sitting above a woman were being abusive to her - that's bullying plain and simple. I can understand that people some distance away won't see or hear it sufficiently to know how it's really going on, but if one sees that kind of bullying going on and is indifferent to it, that's condoning the behaviour.
Speaking up is a separate thing. You could see it going on, think it's not on, but be too afraid/uncomfortable to speak up. That gets back to Emma's point that in that situation people often don't feel safe enough to complain. It's hard to speak up to a group of usually drunk guys, "What you're doing isn't on." because there's always the risk they might get violent or simply more unpleasant.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
get violent or simply more unpleasant.
I’ve experienced that. However I couldn’t see what I did without speaking out loud about ( I was already shocked that noone had spoken up before they got through to me ) their behaviour as soon as they got within earshot. Blood over the face and in the middle of Kings Cross did not a fun time make. I’d do it again in a flash.
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The two conservative apparently heterosexual men on Jim Mora's panel today thought this hate speech was perfectly acceptable. Unless it turned into physical harassment, when it might need to be addressed.
However, hate speech is only a short step away from physical violence. They must have never been the target of homophobic, racist, sexist or ablist comments or witnessed how cruel and disabling this can be to the victims. Or reflected on what witnessing such attitudes and behaviour teaches young people. To accept it as just the way things are is just unbelievable.
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Emma Hart, in reply to
That gets back to Emma's point that in that situation people often don't feel safe enough to complain. It's hard to speak up to a group of usually drunk guys, "What you're doing isn't on." because there's always the risk they might get violent or simply more unpleasant.
Which led me to my biggest quandary with this: in front of my children. When my kids were actually kids, I really wanted them to think this stuff was Not Okay. And if I don't say anything when it happens, I'm not teaching them that. But. If the kids were around, I was much less likely to speak up in case things got unpleasant.
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I would hope that than any spokesperson who uses the phrase "PC Police" un-ironically would soon have a performance review meeting
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
I read the lot earlier. It seemed about 2-1 supportive, perhaps a little more.
Sure, but that's just amongst those who could be bothered writing a comment, and whose comments were printable (I've never figured out what will and won't have a comment fail Your Views' moderation). Any schmoe can "like" a comment, but you have to register to post. Because of that, I considered it more instructive as to reactions to see two unsupportive comments with nearly 100 and just over 100 likes, against about 50 likes for the top-rated supportive comment.
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