Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Feminist as crazy old man

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  • Sacha,

    lets not forget how advanced we were in heavenly navigation while the northern tribe elites were still part of the flat earth society

    He's right about that part. "Here there be dragons, etc".

    Another crucial polynesian navigation tool was advanced storytelling. Sadly it does not seem to be genetic in its transmission judging by some of the challenged expression by descendents here today.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    have you not heard of our 'night dances' which were outlawed by the missionaries in favour of their position:)

    Oh killjoy's of all strips have been doing that since forever, don't take it personal like.
    That radical psychiatry is a hoot... it takes me back...... Wilhelm Reich
    and his orgone.

    http://inventors.about.com/od/qrstartinventors/a/orgone.htm

    damn tried to link text what are those square bracket [[ and a vertical line?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    of course it's helping russell. getting people to look at themselves and what they say in a different light always helps.

    but fair enough i'm done. put the wash on rinse,repeat and recycle.

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    of course it's helping russell. getting people to look at themselves and what they say in a different light always helps.

    That would depend on your argument being thoughtful, original and sincere. In the absence of those virtues, what you're actually doing is essentially trolling.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    Another crucial polynesian navigation tool was advanced storytelling.

    and dipping your balls in the water to see which way the current was flowing.

    Sadly it does not seem to be genetic in its transmission judging by some of the challenged expression by descendents here today.

    can i claim english as a second language and distilling troof down to an easily transmissable code for an excuse ?

    oh that twat that called me a twit..yeah it does and my names not jesus:)

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Go away. I am tired of this thread being about you and so is everyone else.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    yeah it does

    No, it doesn't.

    my names not jesus:)

    I never said it was. Learn to understand punctuation.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    That would depend on your argument being thoughtful, original and sincere. In the absence of those virtues, what you're actually doing is essentially trolling.

    call it how you see it but i'm just putting an opinion out there. take it or leave it but can we all at least agree to leave the petty name calling at the door, not get all bent outta shape and agree to disagree in the absence of facts ?

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    heres another funny thing...swearing i'm totally cool with.

    invoking the lords name in vain...not so much

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I've never been convinced by "affirmative action"

    Ben, if a group has been systematically disadvantaged, the playing field does not magically become level the moment the discrimination is stopped. Some investment is needed to make up for entrenched disadvantage, and fairness suggests that can not be just the responsibility of the disadvantaged group. Nor are they often able to do so.

    Decades of discrimination in education and employment means that members of disadvantaged groups will not have the same income, networks and career prospects even when arrangements, structures and organisational behaviors are put right. That leaves them with less power and fewer resources to contribute.

    There are obviously differences between individuals and between groups - for example the position and context of GLBT people and disabled people are quite different when it comes to employment and income, but similar in stigma.

    Overall, it shortens the bootstraps those people and groups might otherwise be able to pull themselves up with. We can all lend a hand with that, including through public investment and programmes. That's what has been done over the past four decades for women, for Maori, for Pasifika peoples and other migrants.

    Not nearly finished yet, though, and the way it is approached is subject to political decisions about the balance between individual and collective responsibility.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    heres another funny thing...swearing i'm totally cool with.

    invoking the lords name in vain...not so much

    And here was me thinking you were an equal-opportunity-offense sort of poster.

    He may be your Lord, and good for you, but are you trying to force an attitude towards Jesus upon us? Through this 'loudhailer' of a blog site, even? I'm shocked sir. I thought we were all, y'know, evolving magically beyond that?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    BenWilson said:

    The way I see it, male responsibility for feminism ends at "giving woman an equal chance", and the rest is the job of women, to seize those chances, to make good on them, and the flipside of this empowerment is taking the responsibility for failure too.

    Okay, but that's a huge job, ranging from rethinking gender roles with respect to childcare, to eliminating the type of discriminiation that sees women paid less than men with equal qualifications and experience, to valuing caring work more (typically gender-aligned, 'though of course, you can always find men working in caring roles too).

    And he also says this:

    I think this has happened, and continues to happen. Which actually means it's the job of women to sort out the extreme feminists, to put them in their place, to decide what position to take.

    Hmmm... which they are doing. Plenty of feminists have roundly rejected large portions of the thinking of people like Mary Daly. She was kind of not known widely any more in feminism, and her thinking had been marginalised, to the extent that at least one major feminist blogger was unaware of her transphobia.

    But I don't see why men shouldn't participate in this, even if only to say that x, y, z, view is problematic for whatever reasons.

    I would love to stay and keep talking, but I have a critically important appointment to get my hair restored to my preferred colour...

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Okay, I'm deleting your posts now. You seem to think you're being clever and challenging, but, as has been noted in another thread, your arguments aren't provocative, or interesting, they're boring reactionary crap that we've heard before. I don't know whether you're sincere in those beliefs or not, but in the end the net effect is the same.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I would love to stay and keep talking, but I have a critically important appointment to get my hair restored to my preferred colour...

    We're with you all the way, sister.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I don't know whether you're sincere in those beliefs or not, but in the end the net effect is the same.

    Agree. Was just about to say I suspect they might be genuine if ill-informed beliefs, but given the tone of the conversation I'm also beyond caring about the motivation. Others are still saying interesting stuff, which is good.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    but that's a huge job

    It's such a huge job, in fact, that I think it requires fundamentally reorganising how our society works, at least in part. Which means that I find Ben's argument problematic. It's like he's Booker T. Washington and I'm W. E. B. Du Bois, or something. :)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    @BenWilson and Deborah and Danielle - yep, it's a huge job and it means men need to really think about what they mean as giving women an equal chance. It's more than just formal legal rights. If we organise our society in such a way that some people earn money through paid employment, which takes up so much time that other people have to do the unpaid work of raising children and other forms of caring, then we need to make sure that the divisions of labour that fall out of that don't result in inequality. Formal legal equality has so far resulted in a lingering pay gap between men and women, and the answer to that needs to be more sophisticated than "that's just because women like to do the low paying jobs, or like to balance work and family life."

    I get so frustrated when I hear women taking on the feminist movement for failing to deliver on its promise that women could have both a career and family. For one thing, I'm not sure it ever promised that, and if it did, it didn't just leave it up to women to seek out this nirvana on their own. Feminists called for society to change, not just individuals. The reasons it's difficult to have both a maximised career and a close family life for women is because someone's got to do the family's unpaid work, and while women have flooded into the paid workforce, men haven't flooded into the gap in the careforce. You can't leave the system as it is, and blame women for either failing to grasp the opportunity to be equal to men, or blame them for the social consequences of their desertion of roles that were previously considered not worth paying for.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    while women have flooded into the paid workforce, men haven't flooded into the gap in the careforce

    Nicely put

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    your arguments aren't provocative, or interesting, they're boring reactionary crap that we've heard before.

    i apologise if you've heard it all before, being that you're so educated and enlightened and pro active and all. i guess i can only wish i was as provocatively exciting and interesting as most of you.

    Okay, but that's a huge job, ranging from rethinking gender roles with respect to childcare, to eliminating the type of discriminiation that sees women paid less than men with equal qualifications and experience, to valuing caring work more

    maybe on a societal level but on the personal front it aint that huge.

    my lady has taken on fulltime well paid employment in a property management business owned by and completely staffed by women while i'm now doing the stay at home fulltime childcare, cooking thing for 7 kids.

    sure it took a little bit of adjustment like about 3 weeks or so to settle into routines and such but we're all functioning pretty well now.

    except i do spend more time on line than i probably should and as a consequence say more shit than is neccessary, so for that i apologise :)

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    maybe on a societal level but on the personal front it aint that huge.

    There are plenty of examples of family arrangements like pollywog's. They're not the majority though, because when men on average get paid more than women on average, it costs the family less on average to lose a woman's wage when there's care work to be done. And women tend to get paid less on average because they either anticipate taking time out of the paid workforce or have in fact done so. It's a self-reinforcing cycle.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    invoking the lords name in vain...not so much

    Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    say more shit than is neccessary

    It's the quality rather than the quantity, believe me. And I'd lose the disingenuous passive-aggressive bollocks too.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    Not if the average woman isn't getting paid a family wage herself.

    Unpaid work or low-paid work, it's still female-dominated.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    steven c - speaking of the 4 males (2 family, 2 friends) who basically arnt paid for being house husbands/ caregivers, and knowing of the ferocious love their wives have for them - I'd say Yes!

    Tho' -average women? That beast - like The Average Man - I've never quite believed in...

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    maybe on a societal level but on the personal front it aint that huge.

    my lady has taken on fulltime well paid employment in a property management business owned by and completely staffed by women while i'm now doing the stay at home fulltime childcare, cooking thing for 7 kids.

    sure it took a little bit of adjustment like about 3 weeks or so to settle into routines and such but we're all functioning pretty well now.

    except i do spend more time on line than i probably should and as a consequence say more shit than is neccessary, so for that i apologise :)

    Sigh ... after spending two days in what seemed to be an attempt to bait all the white urban liberals (or whatever), now you contribute something real and drawn from your experience, something that people can work with.

    The irony being that I've already suspended your account (you won't be able to log back in). When three different threads were turning into you vs the world I didn't have much choice. Not to mention that you were crapping on other people who read and post here. I did ask you to chill for a bit, until I had to enforce it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

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