Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Fact and fantasy

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  • BenWilson, in reply to Farmer Green,

    The comments following the presentation put it into a better perspective.

    They're extremely hostile to environmentalists, despite this actually being an environmentalist idea. Presumably there's a mentality that "Greenies hate on fossil fuel at all costs, so they couldn't possibly like any other solution than reduction of those". Which might be true for some environmentalists, but definitely isn't all of them. This solution is not particularly coupled with any assault on the idea of reducing fossil fuel reliance, indeed it appears to involve no need for them at all, and is aimed at third world cattle herders.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to BenWilson,

    Don't be fooled by Oxalis ; it will come back 10-fold , especially if you disturb the ground. Repeated green manure crops of mustard will exhaust it.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to BenWilson,

    "environmentalists" does cover a wide range of positions though doesn't it?
    They may be referring to the group who want to return to subsistence agriculture and a world population of a billion or so. Still, that may well happen at some point.
    Not a lot that we could do about it , depending on the cause.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    Nothing is surer than a reduction in dependence on fossil fuels. Neither of us will see that though. There is still an awful lot of coal, not to mention shale gas.
    It might be better to keep the oil for absolutely essential uses , rather than burning it all.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Don't be fooled by Oxalis ; it will come back 10-fold , especially if you disturb the ground. Repeated green manure crops of mustard will exhaust it.

    Nice tip, cheers. I just checked this now, since I do have a mustard patch in this stretch of garden. The Oxalis in there is indeed about half the height that it is outside that area. Maybe I'll plant that whole stretch out with mustard.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Neither of us will see that though. There is still an awful lot of coal, not to mention shale gas.

    I guess we'll see. Future prediction is tricky when you're talking about complex systems (like humanity). Energy use is increasing exponentially. The endgame for any exponential exhaustion comes fast and hard. Its future will often not resemble its past.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Farmer Green,

    I have some sympathy with this comment in that thread-stream:

    But the part of this video that p*ssed me of the most is this guy’s certainty that this solution of his is our only choice. He’s just as wrong about that as he was about shooting 40,000 elephants. He made a gross ignorant mistake resulting in massive damage due to his certainty then, and he is repeating his certainty now. Not that what he is advocating will cause the kind of mess he caused the first time round, but by being so entirely certain again he is cutting off the possibility that there are other options still. He can’t think of any, so in his arrogance he makes the same mistake he made with the 40,000 elephants and decides that his ignorance dictates the answer.

    Humans being capable of amazing things, I have to agree.

    "environmentalists" does cover a wide range of positions though doesn't it?

    Yes. I don't think it helps to see them as a hippy cliche.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to BenWilson,

    "Yes. I don’t think it helps to see them as a hippy cliche."

    The comments , from one or two posters, seemed to be fixed on that idea.
    Farmerbraun attempted a correction , but may have got nowhere.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    Talking of short-term trends -
    http://joannenova.com.au/2013/03/has-the-world-started-cooling-hints-from-4-of-5-global-temperature-sets-say-it-might-have/#more-27430

    has anyone been out walking barefoot on the grass in the early morning?

    The autumn equinox is one week away; we are halfway to the shortest day from the summer solstice (longest day).

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Farmer Green,

    “Yes. I don’t think it helps to see them as a hippy cliche.”

    The comments , from one or two posters, seemed to be fixed on that idea.

    I am often astounded to hear the vehement hatred , from the resentful Right, for anybody with the slightest regard for the environment or for policies that lead toward a sustainable future. Heaven forbid, that may cost them some of their "Hard Earned Money™". It is as if they resent their own children and their children's children gaining anything without having to do the hard work themselves.

    Money is a means to an end not, as some would have it, an end that justifies the meanness.

    has anyone been out walking barefoot on the grass in the early morning?

    This thought would not occur to those that consider money or wealth to be far superior to nature.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    I am often astounded to hear the vehement hatred , from the resentful Right, for anybody with the slightest regard for the environment or for policies that lead toward a sustainable future.

    Mostly its a intuitive response assuming that the people making such claims are scum sucking politicians of an order of magnitude beyond even the baseline crappiness of all politicians. The enviromental claims are of such seemingly nigh impervious, and indeed perfect "it's for the children", morality that they should set off the BS detectors in anybody beyond the age of 3 yo.

    So far the enviromental lobby is responsible for such a great number of things. The adoption of bio-ethanol policies was a victory of theirs. The luddite scaremongering against GM. The Kyoto fest where the worlds richest jet off the schmooze fests in exotic locations and get their pictures taken with celebrities. These haven't helped the enviroment one iota, they've helped the politicians.

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Angus Robertson,

    Mostly its a intuitive response

    I think the term is knee jerk.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    To deal with twatcock politicals, knee their idiosyncracies

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Angus Robertson,

    Just occasionally one of them says something sensible. Bill English just this week suggested thast adaptation to climate change (should it occur) could be the way to go.
    Overwhelming!

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • SteveH, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Talking of short-term trends -
    http://joannenova.com.au/2013/03/has-the-world-started-cooling-hints-from-4-of-5-global-temperature-sets-say-it-might-have/#more-27430

    It looked like the fit of the linear trends in those graphs wasn't particularly good so I duplicated the HadCRUT4 graph to check. The r-squared is 0.0458. I.e. the linear trendline is basically meaningless. Really looking for trends in unadjusted temperature data over that sort of time frame is simply foolish.

    Since Sep 2009 • 444 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to SteveH,

    Did you read the article? What sort of "adjustment" did you wish to impose?
    It said , that IF cooling was occurring, that is what it WOULD look like .
    You have not disagreed with that.

    All short-term trends are meaningless in the context of almost- imperceptible changes over century scales. Even 30 year half-cycles are too short , as we have seen with the PDO.

    The empirical data is consistent with a 60 year harmonic overlying a slowly rising trend (since the LIA) or a slowly falling trend (since MWP or earlier WP).

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    This is outrageous ; now the MSM are at it. Surely Hard News will seek to put the record straight ; we cannot have the media entertaining the public in this way.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294560/The-great-green-1-The-hard-proof-finally-shows-global-warming-forecasts-costing-billions-WRONG-along.html

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I too have notice considerable Global cooling occurring locally. I have been taking temperature readings almost daily every year between March and September (I find it too warm to go outdoors for the rest of the year as I only wear winter clothes and find bare skin offensive).
    My conclusions are undoubted amongst my peers in the AGW Deniers Club.
    Every year I have found that temperatures drop during my periods of measurement.
    Just last year I noticed a drop of almost 10 degrees in the measurement period, this is consistent with measurements I have taken for the last ten years.
    This is incontrovertible evidence that the Global temperature has dropped 100 degrees in accumulative terms in that time.
    I should sue Al Gore for the billions he has stolen from my "Hard Earned Money"
    Yrs. Angry of Avondale.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    You got that off a site devoted to Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming didn’t you?
    You just changed the warming to cooling, but your evidence is every bit as good , I must say.
    How are your GCMs working? Got any predictions?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    I only wear winter clothes and find bare skin offensive

    No early morning barefoot strolls for you then Mr Angry.
    Keep those precious bodily fluids safe from the international dewish conspiracy.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    All this bunkum about the earth being round, too. When will they see sense? Flat has always been best.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Farmer Green,

    How are your GCMs working? Got any predictions?

    If by GCMs you mean Giant Canine Mandibles the my prediction is “They gonna bite yur ass”
    ;-)

    It's Knowledge Bro...

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Knowledge Bro,

    You Called?
    From your “Scentifik Journul" The daily Mail comments:

    So the fact that global temperature has increased by half a degree in half a century is not warming then? Ok. I’ll go and inform the OED to get them to change the definition. This is a terrible attempt to discredit the concepts of climate change by trying to mock prediction models. Ok, the prediction models may be wrong, but that’s what science is isn’t it? You hypothesise, then test, and then conclude on whether the hypothesis was correct or not. If not, you take the new data you just gathered during testing and adjust your hypothesis and repeat. Eventually, you end up at a model that fits. The problem is where the government takes a hypothesis and tries to publish it as a fact. The argument is and always has been about whether we humans are influencing climate change or not. It is pretty much universally accepted that global warming is occurring, and has been for some time. Not to mention, your graph attempts to isolate a tiny section of data which is erroneous in of itself.

    - localzuk, Minehead, 18/3/2013 0:50
    Click to rate Rating 2302

    Note the reader rating and compare.
    Now THAT is Knowledge Bro
    Yours, Gok Lowbender, Te Awamutu

    Behind the fridge • Since Mar 2009 • 58 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    Lovely to see you all here, and to see that you have all survived the climate catastrophe that was summer in Godzone. Choice , wasn’t it? Not too hot , not too dry, and not too long. Quite close to average really. (reality is that it is the autumn equinox in a couple of days time , and there is a stiff southerly sweeping in tonight)
    All in all , just what you would expect.
    Not if you read the MSM though; it was the end of the world.
    So what can be done about this scurrilous mis-reporting?
    Damn it all ; they've even got some politicians believing that we should just carry on and adapt (as usual).
    Hell’s bells , the peepull could be seriously misled.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 778 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Breaking News
    .5° C rise over decades not noticed in one summer

    Video at 11.00

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

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