Hard News: Deja Vu
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I think the point being made is that they're still a high-earning double income family. Six kids is a lot, and certainly expensive, but let's not overlook the fact that they've been financially secure for sometime.
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I suspect there's a lot of families with six children who would be damn happy to be on $100K, let alone well over $300K.
But your income at this sort of level isn't in any way affected by the number of children you pop out, and fair enough.
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I think the point being made is that they're still a high-earning double income family. Six kids is a lot, and certainly expensive, but let's not overlook the fact that they've been financially secure for sometime.
Paul: Perhaps we should put Bill and Mary English's fecundity to the same side as Helen Clark and Peter Davis not having any children at all? Don't really see the relevance to any matter of genuine public interest.
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Craig, I fully agree... that's kinda what I thought 3410's comment to Glenn Pearce meant... It's not relevant.
Moreover, it's Bill English who introduced this into the discussion, no one else. The number of kids they have is their business.
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You're kidding, right?
Yes, my tongue was firmly in my cheek.
I would say though that having 6 kids does add a little weight to English's argument about renting and having to shift twice and not wanting to go through it again.
It can't be that easy to find accomodation suitable for a cabinet minister/family of eight in Wallytown.
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3410,
Don't really see the relevance to any matter of genuine public interest.
The relevance is to Bill's claim that the subsidy has enabled his family to remain together. I call "BS."
Craig, I fully agree... that's kinda what I thought 3410's comment to Glenn Pearce meant... It's not relevant.
Sort of. The idea that you'd be hard-pressed to keep a family with 6 kids together on, say, $370k without a $50k rent subsidy on a house that you own... it's nonsense. Like Kyle said:
I suspect there's a lot of families with six children who would be damn happy to be on $100K, let alone well over $300K.
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Sort of. The idea that you'd be hard-pressed to keep a family with 6 kids together on, say, $370k without a $50k rent subsidy on a house that you own... it's nonsense.
And it would still be nonsense if Bill English was a bachelor in a betsit with ninety-six cats.
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My partner and I have been married for nearly 20 years, and in those 20 years, we have moved 12 times. You might think we do it so often because it's fun, but really, it isn't, even when it's just a matter of moving a few streets over in a town you already live in (for example, moving from a rented house to a house you own). Bill English's reasons for not continuing to rent accommodation in Wellington are sound i.e. moving is hell, especially when you are moving children.
It does seem odd to designate the house where your partner and children are living on a full-time basis as your secondary residence.
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I don't the ministers live in state owned houses, as there second residence. That would leave a better taste in the public mouth, even if it where inefficient.
He should be in Vogel house but there is a squatter in there at the moment according to David Farrar and then the problem would not exist, although arguably costing the taxpayer more
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And it would still be nonsense if Bill English was a bachelor in a betsit with ninety-six cats.
Yeah, but when he's saying things like "I am not going to allow anyone to require me to send my children away to meet some perception problem" I think noting he can damn well afford to house six kids on that income is fair game.
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Yeah, but when he's saying things like "I am not going to allow anyone to require me to send my children away to meet some perception problem" I think noting he can damn well afford to house six kids on that income is fair game.
Lucy: If you think it's not a legitimate taxpayer function to be subsidising the mortgages of any MP or Minister, or allowing them to get into the landlord game, then it's utterly irrelevant whether they have six children, three (like Goff), two (like Key) or none (like Clark).
And I'd rather avoid politicians' children becoming tokens in any kind of game, "fair" or not, thanks.
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And I'd rather avoid politicians' children becoming tokens in any kind of game, "fair" or not, thanks.
Craig, I fear you've overlooked that English made his family the issue, no one else.
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Craig, I fear you've overlooked that English made his family the issue, no one else.
Paul; If you're going to bend over and pick up every sticky turd a politician obligingly lets fall, all you get is mucky hands and a sore back.
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And any MP -- regardless of the state of their reproductive organs, or whether they're below the salt on the Opposition backbench or the Prime Minister -- who can't get by on a far from parsimonious package needs extreme budgeting advice.
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C'mon Craig, English hoped he'd earn our sympathy as a caring father, that's transparently clear. It's a distraction.
He changed the ownership arrangements for his home in order to increase his allowances; that's the issue. It's compounded by the apparent hypocrisy of the Minister of Finance acting in a way that's precisly the opposite of his counsel to the public-at-large.
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You know, a few years back, when we qualified for (and applied for and received) Working For Families.... We were grateful for the approx $150 a week it added to the family income.... we could have scraped by without it, but it certainly let us indulge in the odd bottle of wine, a birthday bigger party for our 5 year old and other small indulgences that made for a nicer standard of living.
But still, I did not feel good about receiving government assistance... I was earning an average (or slightly above) wage, and we had chosen our situation so were happy to lie in it.
National's calls of WFF making everyone a middle-class beneficiary, and that this was a poor state of affairs had a resonance to them for me... (you will recall National's outrage that someone on as much as $100k could get a little assistance if they had enough kids to qualify)So now it seems these same ministers dont seem to object to receiving hand-outs themselves... especially when their salaries are not even slightly "middle-class"... in fact they are on considerably more than double the limit they previously found it outrageous to require assistance.
Hypocrites.
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doh! "bigger party for the 5 year old"
and I'll add at the end
"So I no longer need to feel any embarrassment for receiving the assistance".
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Mark - this is uncalled for and out of order.
As far as I am aware, this is the first time you've made any sort of mention of your ethnicity (as opposed to your current country of residence) on this forum.
I doubt TracyMac has (had) any idea what 'colour' you are when she posted, and it was and is irrelevant to her reply.
I could also point out that you have no idea of her ethnicity, either.
This isn't the first time you've pulled out the race card when someone has disagreed with you, and I for one would appreciate it if you used it a little more sparingly.
109 words Rich, for what?
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English hoped he'd earn our sympathy as a caring father, that's transparently clear.
Talking point? Housing Minister Phil Heatley has his own prairie moment on tv3 news:
"It's important for me to keep my little family together with me in Wellington"
Them family values fair overfloweth.
Judith Collins is another who we are paying to rent her Welli apartment to a fellow National MP - whose name she refuses to reveal. And why is that?
"I'm not going to breach other people's privacy"
Seriously. Said with a straight face - see the accompanying clip.
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That milk udder animation is hilarious.
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And quite a brave choice in a 6 o'clock news show given our local lack of legal protection for those taking the piss. I guess they're pretty confident in their story.
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Can't imagine it on TV1's news, that's fer sure.
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Them family values fair overfloweth.
Oh how I wish I had Craig's lyrical skills right now...
Heatley's practiced manner gave him away... But I'm a family man, <dogwhistle>not some barren-femo-nazi-lesbian</dogwhistle>, I need your money to keep my family together... never mind that I'll cut whatever subsidy keeps your's from sinking...
What's the bet Farrar does a comparative analysis of the Minister's with kids in National and tells us these subsidies are just part of the price you pay to have real NZers running the show.
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The "it's ok we're doing bad stuff because they did it too" talking point is getting a right workout over the last few weeks, innit.
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So versatile.
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