Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Cultures and violence

464 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 19 Newer→ Last

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    is that testosterone is why you’re very unlikely to ever see a society where violent crime is skewed female (or even 50/50)

    Yup. And the corrolary is that if you want to address violent crime you have to understand and work with the effects of testosterone, not ignore it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    Also worth bringing up: one of the reasons there isn't hard data on the effects of gun ownership in the US is that the NRA can't be having with any of that namby-pamby "research" stuff.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to B Jones,

    Perhaps there’s something to that – we worry less about boys doing dodgy stuff, and we therefore do a worse job of protecting them.

    I think we (in general) worry about what will be done to girls, but about what boys will do. The casting of boys in the active role makes them seem less vulnerable, when the greatest danger to the average teenager is often themselves.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    understand and work with the effects of testosterone

    But what does this actually MEAN? In practical terms? I can just imagine how dumbly this would be implemented. "Hey guys, you're awash with hormones, which make you kee-RAZY! So that's an awesome way to take no responsibility for anything you do!"

    I dunno, I am obviously leery. It seems awfully like saying women shouldn't have control of the nuclear button because once a month they get bitchy.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Congratulations, I thought this was about gun control in the USA, but after 182 odd posts we can all heave a sigh of relief and get back to playing the usual game of Public Address identity issues bingo.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Danielle,

    But what does this actually MEAN? In practical terms? I can just imagine how dumbly this would be implemented. “Hey guys, you’re awash with hormones, which make you kee-RAZY! So that’s an awesome way to take no responsibility for anything you do!”

    I really recommend reading some Ta-Nehisi Coates - he's not talking about the influence of testosterone specifically, but he does get into the effects of growing up in a place that emphasized violence as a core element of masculinity and how that was hard to separate from his impulses, and sometimes still is, even though he knows better. This piece, for instance.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    identity issues bingo

    Hear ye, for Sanctuary has spoken: the gendered nature of gun violence and mass shootings is not at all relevant. Good to know.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5442 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to James Bremner,

    Mr Bremner, you're reanimating that dead Social Darwinist horse. Anders Breivik and James Holmes just happened to be wearing body armour, so even an assault rifle might have been futile. And what then, should the citizenry start packing grenades and rocket launchers?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5442 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Adam Lanza's Mum -Stuff:

    But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in US prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise - in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 per cent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

    I have heard that somewhere quite close to here.....

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to James Bremner,

    juducious

    those martial arts again

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19743 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    called the police

    socialist

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19743 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Danielle,

    But what does this actually MEAN? In practical terms?

    It means recognising that some approaches just won't work. In the same way that you as a parent know full well that demanding your child sit still and just learn for 8 hours and don't move would be a stupid approach.

    All I'm saying is understand that testosterone has an influence on behaviour and adapt your teaching methods to account for that. It doesn't have to be dumb.

    The simple fact is men commit most of the violent crime and the most violent crimes. You argue that it is a failure to raise our boys properly and I agree. Where we differ is that I argue that some of the failure is because we don't properly understand and account for the effects of testosterone and the male biology on behaviour. I'm not suggesting doing dumb things.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Hey I'm probably as far from a US Constitutional lawyer as one gets, but perhaps those legislators and jurists who demand the founding laws remain sacrosanct should wander over to the Jefferson memorial (ya know, one of those founders) and consider the inscription on the side:
    "I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Tamara, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Not sure if I want to wade into this but...say there is a significant effect of biology on male behaviour. Surely then the socialisation around masculinity in most cultures (see gun ad upthread) exacerbates the alleged propensity for violence. The answer to that would then be essentially the same as what Danielle and Lucy are saying. Dare I even take it to the extreme: boys should be trained to be even more passive than girls, so as to overcome the effect of the biology!

    New Zealand • Since Oct 2010 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    some of the failure is because we don't properly understand and account for the effects of testosterone and the male biology on behaviour

    Do you mean because we make excuses for and ignore a large amount of problematic male behaviour? Our legal system is designed mainly by men, largely to deal with male offending, which makes up the bulk of most kinds of crime. I think taking into account male biology is more likely to be implicitly built in to that, than somehow excluded.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Tamara, in reply to B Jones,

    Bug and feature?

    New Zealand • Since Oct 2010 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Danielle,

    I dunno, I am obviously leery. It seems awfully like saying women shouldn’t have control of the nuclear button because once a month they get bitchy.

    Yes. This. It's not like women, and young women in particular, are immune to the effects of hormones.

    Sure, let's acknowledge that testosterone plays a part in the development and behavior of young men. But let's use that to do a better job of raising them, and explaining hyper-masculine culture, rather than as an excuse?

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Danielle,

    Hear ye, for Sanctuary has spoken: the gendered nature of gun violence and mass shootings is not at all relevant. Good to know.

    Got to say, I think that's a perfectly reasonable reply to what was an unduly sarcastic comment Tom. No doubt this is a challenging issue, but a unique quality of this community is the respect we maintain while furiously disagreeing.

    Dare I even take it to the extreme: boys should be trained to be even more passive than girls, so as to overcome the effect of the biology!

    Perhaps if we replaced 'trained' with nutured and 'passive' with respectful (or other terms)? I've got three girls, none of them I would want to be 'passive', none are.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    let's use that to do a better job of raising them, and explaining hyper-masculine culture

    Seems to me you are both in agreement about that.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19743 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Paul Williams,

    respectful

    yes

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19743 posts Report Reply

  • Tamara, in reply to Paul Williams,

    Hi Paul - I was being somewhat facetious. I have two girls and feel the same way as you do! Of course we individual parents want to raise/nurture all our children to be humane, respectful etc. However, broader societal forces are not aimed the same way and I used that language to make a point. Sorry that it didn't come across clearly!

    New Zealand • Since Oct 2010 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to B Jones,

    I think taking into account male biology is more likely to be implicitly built in to that, than somehow excluded.

    I think you're kind of saying the same thing? The largely-male viewpoint of the system means that the underlying biological impulses are allowed to control behaviour, instead of being recognised and dealt with, are ignored.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Tamara,

    However, broader societal forces are not aimed the same way and I used that language to make a point. Sorry that it didn't come across clearly!

    Tamara, I assumed that's where you were heading. The broader social stuff is the challenge, agreed. I've been surprised by some of my kids' behaviour over the years and wondered not only where it was learned but how it displaced what I thought we were modeling?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Tamara, in reply to Paul Williams,

    As a parent of very young girls it seems to me that gendered social conditioning is alive and well and I know I'm not the only one who's noticed it. I feel like I have to push back at it on a daily basis.

    New Zealand • Since Oct 2010 • 115 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 19 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

This topic is closed.