Hard News: "Creative" and "Flexible"
679 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 … 8 9 10 11 12 … 28 Newer→ Last
-
But none of those reasons bother me as much as how we waltzed into having this conversation, happily conceding a huge amount of ground to the privatisers of every single last fucking thing.
Grarrrr!! Tiso smash!
Glad you say we there.
I think that ground was conceded long ago. I also think it was a good thing. It made it possible for people 'of the left' to at least consider such a thing without having to be branded as class traitors. The discussion is about the specifics, rather than the principle. To what extent is there fat to be trimmed from RNZ is a much more productive discussion than the centuries old dilemma of public vs private services. If we can actually see that the fat that is trimmed just cuts the taste of the whole thing, then we might want to keep the fat after all. Concert actually sounds rather lean to me, I'd consider fattening it up to be quite worthwhile and cheap.
-
The volume of contemporary music and in particular New Zealand music is way down on last year outside of the annual Made in New Zealand concert.
I'm not sure this'll be overly persuasive to some commentators here. Back on page 1, in response to Jan Farr's:
You'll probably have to say goodbye to the development of New Zealand composers.
Danyl Mclauchlan made this charming comment:
Another strong argument in favor of the axe.
I know there've been a large amount of silly comments made since, but I think this one takes the cake for callous disregard.
I'm very surprised no-one's mentioned it.
-
How does bfm fund itself?
I don't want to give anyone (COLEMAN) ideas, but most of the DJs on bfm are volunteers, which really helps to keep costs down.
It also explains why there's a pretty high turnover of DJs.
Other people will know the rest of this better than me, but there's also some support from the Auckland University Student's Association, alongside sponsorship of individual shows and advertising.
-
It's a cost-benefit argument. What do you lose for a relatively modest saving in the scheme of things?
Well OK. It's not a vast amount of money, but it's not peanuts either. We're not talking "well we could save $50K". For Concert it'd probably be a 7 figure sum. That's at least worth asking some questions about.
If you're talking about National, I think you underestimate the implications of such an action.
I think National radio is different. It clearly has a special unique status that concert doesn't. Concert's argument is that this is music which wouldn't appear on our airwaves if it wasn't government supported. Which I agree with. I just fail to see why concert music is more deserving of advert free than any other music.
If you're only talking about Concert FM, you have to think about how much sponsorship money there really is in that sector, and who -- particularly in the arts -- would miss out if Concert did win meaningful sponsorship. It would have a significant impact.
That's not a reason for fully funding it though. Do we fully fund anything else because then the sponsorship will flow through to other things that we want? OK, there might be adjustment and things might end up slightly thinner, but the increased opportunities would probably mean more money going into sponsorship of that sector. If the listener numbers are high, companies are going to want to be associated.
Ad free night classes, national parks, libraries, water, home care for elderly citizens
That's not a fair comparison. The night classes aren't all for concert music lovers are they? Libraries only carry a certain type of book? This is a complete subsidy of a segment of our culture, not all our culture.
And as a result the NZSO has suffered really badly from the recession.
Umpteen things suffer during a recession.
On the basis of your argument, we should fully fund things when its a recession, and then provide no funding when the economy is booming. Like everything else, there's an up and down cycle and they have to adjust to that.
But none of those reasons bother me as much as how we waltzed into having this conversation, happily conceding a huge amount of ground to the privatisers of every single last fucking thing.
Someone needs to look up privatisation in the dictionary. And, don't post angry!
-
Danyl, are you saying that audio quality doesn't matter in the dissemination of music (of whatever genre)?
Yes. I mean, no, of course, not, but the argument for Concert FM went something like this:
Pro: Having the taxpayer fund my radio station is the only way I can listen to the music that's so important to me.
Anti: You could buy your own music.
Pro: You mean I should spend my own money to listen to the music I want? How barbaric!
Anti: You could rent it from the library for free.
Pro: God, how neoconservative! And also inconvenient.
Anti: How about downloading it from the internet then? Also for free.
Pro: Ugh. With those horrible compression algorithims? Why can't someone else just pay for my music for me?
Anti: Well, why should they?
Pro: (Sigh) You're SO obtuse.So if audio quality of your music is really important to people then they might want to invest some time or money in buying or borrowing high quality recordings. That's how it works for every other genre of music and every other form of art in existence.
-
Why can't someone else just pay for my music for me?
I don't remember saying that.
-
So if audio quality of your music is really important to people then they might want to invest some time or money in buying or borrowing high quality recordings. That's how it works for every other genre of music and every other form of art in existence.
No, it doesn't. Public art galleries exist so you can see original art without having to buy it.
-
Public art galleries exist so you can see original art without having to buy it.
But you do have to leave your house and you don't get to keep the artwork, so they're roughly analogous to libraries. Surely the government should provide a service where they go from door to door handing out framed prints of flemish oil paintings to everyone. It would be barbaric not to.
-
All this talk about scrapping Concert tends to ignore the fact that if Concert were scrapped, Radio NZ almost certainly wouldn't get to keep the funding for a service it no longer provided. It wouldn't really fix the present problem.
-
Anti: You could rent it from the library for free.
I wish to join your library, from where I can hire music for free.
-
Really, Geoff? My understanding is that RNZ has consistently declined to participate in those "highly dubious radio surveys", but far be it from me to disturb the vast right wing/corporate conspiracy narrative.
The information I was given in 1999, when the current survey system was set up, was that the commercial networks deliberately excluded RNZ, who now use Nielsen for their audience research. But I may be wrong--I frequently am.
-
Oh, also ... I was amused by a Kiwiblog commenter railing about why couldn't Radio NZ be more like the ABC, and have a really large audience.
Well ...
1. Radio New Zealand National does have a really large audience. Depending on when you survey, it's either the biggest or second-biggest radio audience in NZ. Concert does well too.
2. The ABC's 2009-2010 funding from the Australian taxpayer is $1.13 billion .
-
The information I was given in 1999, when the current survey system was set up, was that the commercial networks deliberately excluded RNZ, who now use Nielsen for their audience research. But I may be wrong--I frequently am.
You're right. It's excluded from the survey because it makes the commercial stations' audience share look smaller than they'd like.
Michael Laws is just full of shit when he claims anything else. Situation normal, then.
-
I would be interested to know if there anyone from NatRad or Concert FM following this discussion (reveal thyself!). It is certainly another lively PA debate, in a summer of lively debates. Check out how many views it has accumulated, in just a few days.
-
On the basis of your argument, we should fully fund things when its a recession, and then provide no funding when the economy is booming. Like everything else, there's an up and down cycle and they have to adjust to that.
That is one perfectly viable way of managing an economy. Unfortunately it needs bipartisan support to work. So, as you say, what usually happens is that lots of things suffer during a recession. It doesn't really have to be that way, is all, somehow the discourse in this country always trends towards cuts when times are hard, very seldom towards making positive investment moves. It's almost Pavlovian. Which is the most galling thing about the 'creative and flexible' rhetoric - it's so formulaic and unflexible a response to a downturn.
-
anyone from NatRad or Concert FM following this discussion (reveal thyself!)
..and tell us some audience composition figures, perhaps.
They can hardly be commercially sensitive, can they? -
.and tell us some audience composition figures, perhaps.
Why would they matter? Do you want confirmation that the audience is old and white? What if it is? Would that make a difference?
-
Well I for one am young and ginga.
-
I know there've been a large amount of silly comments made since, but I think this one takes the cake for callous disregard.
I'm very surprised no-one's mentioned it.
I noticed it, but it just seemed to embarrassingly ignorant to respond to.
-
I resent somebody getting cake for saying something so stupid.
-
Facebook's Save Radio NZ has 12, 450 fans now - young and old, male and female. They're ready to fight 'em in the streets.
-
Would that make a difference?
Might stop some resentful whining
-
I just fail to see why concert music is more deserving of advert free than any other music.
Because it doesn't come in little sound bites. Concerts take time and concentration. Concerts are about serious music - not necessarily European classical music - Indonesian gamelan and Hirini Melbourne and Richard Nunns recreation of early Maori music, for instance. Music with something to say. You certainly don't want to be dragged out of it at the end of every movement and told which firm to buy your mobile phone from.
-
Danyl, your Socratic dialogue would work better were your sock puppets not thoroughly stuffed with straw.
Pro: Having the taxpayer fund my radio station is the only way I can listen to the music that's so important to me.
Pro: Being a taxpayer and helping to fund a radio station is the only way I can make sure that anyone who wants to can listen to music that's not just important but otherwise nigh unobtainable in that form...
Anti: You could buy your own music.
You could rent it from the library for free.
How about downloading it from the internet then? Also for free....as I was saying, especially those who cannot buy their own music (care to cost the content of a day of Concert FM?), cannot rent it from the library for free (show me the library!), and are not sitting at big shiny computers with broadband and the savvy to download broadcast-quality versions of that music (for free?!).
(On that subject: your YouTube Mahler link from earlier would make me cry, if I wasn't laughing. No free ice cream for that. Not even close to a suck on the popsicle, dude!)
As noted above by somebody else, this whole thing feels like a red herring. It smacks of a fishing expedition, to see just how quickly we can be persuaded to throw somebody overboard from the life-raft they keep telling us we're perilously clinging to. And we're obediently debating it, as always: Toss the grannies! No, the unemployed! Ooh, I know, the harpsichordist... and the group rounds on the hapless musician, gibbering in the corner...
Meanwhile, the life-raft is still firmly attached to the deck of the cruise-ship, and there's carpetbag steak for dinner in the first class lounge tonight, with drinks on the Captain.
-
It smacks of a fishing expedition, to see just how quickly we can be persuaded to throw somebody overboard from the life-raft they keep telling us we're perilously clinging to. And we're obediently debating it, as always: Toss the grannies! No, the unemployed! Ooh, I know, the harpsichordist... and the group rounds on the hapless musician, gibbering in the corner...
Meanwhile, the life-raft is still firmly attached to the deck of the cruise-ship, and there's carpetbag steak for dinner in the first class lounge tonight, with drinks on the Captain.
Painfully accurate metaphor ahoy.
Post your response…
This topic is closed.