* Have any of the passionate advocates for National Radio listened to Chris Laidlaw on a Sunday morning, an important timeslot for public radio? It should be called the Death Warmed Up show.
* Is Radio New…

Changes to RNZ would likely be apparent, but a lot of the services under threat are things that you…

For many years, Texaco sponsored live broadcasts from the Metropolitan Opers which Concert FM was quite happy to re-broadcast despite the filthy taint of sponsorship.

...after editing out most, if not all of the references to the sponsor's name.

This was a publically broadcasted interview of a publically avalible book. That kind of hard work is what we love about the old state sector.

The BBC has refused to comment on recent reports that it will close two radio stations and scale back its web presence in order to save about $965 million Cdn.

(by the way Kyle I honestly can't remember Te Papa charging entrance to the national collection, which is what Russell was talking about. A bit of a reading fail there, given Russell made no assertions about touring blockbusters.)

That's not a reading fail. Te Papa isn't an argument for a…

More breast beating and finger pointing than a gorrilla convention held in a '70's disco.

Roflnami.

They would have been hauled onto Nine to Noon so that Kathryn Ryan could speak to them in her extra-sympathetic tone of voice.

She has just been speaking to someone who has a daughter in…

Speaking with friends in the Singapore expat community, where many had been on vacation in some of the worst…

Will that do?

And you know what would now be happening of anyone had died. More breast beating and finger pointing than a gorrilla convention held in a '70's disco. 'oh woe! woe! why didn't someone do something to save those members of…

So, is anyone still doubting the value of National Radio for civil defence information?

I'm beginning to ask myself what the point is of putting out civil defence information at all after molesting my eyeballs with this:

Despite a Civil Defence blitz on radio, internet and television warning of the risk…

http://thedesperateblogger.com/2010/02/breaking-robertson-claims-%E2%80%9Cgod-even-angrier-with-chile-than-haiti%E2%80%9D/

http://freakoutnation.com/2010/02/27/pat-robertson-chile-earthquake-result-of-pact-with-chupacabra-3/

http://monkeymucker.blogspot.com/2010/02/rev-pat-robertson-on-earthquake-in.html

It was that bastard Allende that caused this!!! His ghost that is....

more 9/11 conspiracy theories then...
9/11, 1973 that is....

while channel surfing myself, I had the misfortune to see a brief segment of Geraldo on Focks TV – trying to get someone to say the earthquake (and the…

What will Pat Robertson say?

It was that bastard Allende that caused this!!! His ghost that is....

Thank Pat's god that the CIA was around to fix it!!! "Copper is hard to find these days and at least the US of A has a reliable souce down thar!"

So, is anyone still doubting the value of National Radio for civil defence information?

I happened to be awake at about 6-15am and turned on the TV to watch some of the last of the Winter Olympics and some football. During the breaks in the next half hour I did…

So, is anyone still doubting the value of National Radio for civil defence information?

Dunedin surfers?

Yeah, got half woken up by a text (new tech) at 7.30 this morning which basically said: turn on your radio (old tech).

Spent the rest of the morning with one ear tuned to…

What will Pat Robertson say?

Or Jerry Falwell for that matter. Then again, he can't say much because he's buried in the ground now.

You may want to wash your ears out after listening to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I

It helps of course that it's not been massive.

My thoughts to now move to Chile and the ex-pat community here.

What will Pat Robertson say?

One of the disadvantages of having a partner in the rail industry is that his work cell has been going off (it seems like) every other minute with a text update.

And am I the only person who'd like to kick a few rubber neckers in the slats? Oy…

Well, Lucy, I'd like to think that in a situation like this every broadcaster would take their civil defence role seriously — and not seeing (or hearing) any evidence that isn't the case.

TV 3 were still showing televangelists when I checked, actually...but, dude, it was more that NatRad is…

Threadjack: I hope you are all off the coast and listening to National Radio right the fuck now.

Well, Lucy, I'd like to think that in a situation like this every broadcaster would take their civil defence role seriously — and not seeing (or hearing) any evidence that isn't the…

So, is anyone still doubting the value of National Radio for civil defence information?

Dunedin surfers?

Hmm, that must come from listening to the kiddies show on bFm. What's the frequency, Kenneth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtxz4yV_-3g

Oh yeah, and what Lucy said. But playing Manic's Tsunami would have been too obvious, even for me ;-)

Lechering predates lecturing in english by a few hundred years.

Casting no aspirations upon anyone here ;p

what is, at heart, a giant global pyramid scheme

yes, yes and yes.

Makes even less of a case for taxpayer funding if its just collecting news from other sources as opposed to outsourcing and funding an NZ journo to get out in the field and report the news.

As Phil says above, these are mostly features I'm listing. I haven't had the…

You also didn't factor in Telecom's success at lobbying limp-wristed Ministers who might have regulated their cosy monopoly/duopoly a decade earlier. Mobile termination rates, anyone?

I didn't, but TXT is a global phenomenon. I think the main driver of its success was that it was economically fruitful for business, and…

One wonders if the good herr doktor PR must be thinking of gattung out while the gettings gut...

If you wondered what happened to Nick Leeson....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10628598

... just collecting news from other sources as opposed to outsourcing and funding an NZ journo to get out in the field and report the news

Most of what Sam's talking about are feature programmes. Radio New Zealand is more than a news service.

I just think its inevitable radio in its commercial form and public form will eventually die as broadband becomes cheaper and home based jocks put out their own programmes, work habits change and advertisers stop supporting radio as they can no longer reach their captive target market.

Perhaps inevitable, but…

I just think its inevitable radio in its commercial form and public form will eventually die as broadband becomes cheaper and home based jocks…

I just resent having to play along with all this business-speak as if it's some sort of important or coherent philosophy rather than a particularly propagandist part of what is, at heart, a giant global pyramid scheme.

Agree

Who said profit was all bad, anyway?

Yeah, I get how it works, we are all cogs in the machine, I would be nothing without our glorious wage-paying overlords, blah blah blah. I just resent having to play along with all this business-speak as if it's some sort of important…

I actually work pretty damn hard to turn out decent work — and I'm sure Russell and everyone else connected with PAR does the same.

I bet that Radio Live appreciates the effort that you and many others put into Public Address Radio, but ultimately the company is delivering this…

respect the non-molestation order my desk took out against me

I probably instigated this. This violence against desks has got to stop!

In the service of... profit.

OMFG – eevil profit. You know something, I really don't give a shit if Radio Live isn't broadcasting Public Address Radio out of pure altruism, but I really can do (and I mean this as a general comment) without the sneering at commercial radio as…

For really minimal starters you might point to a fair bit of the evening programming being sourced from the BBC World Service or from the ABC – both fairly reputable, I would have thought. Radio Waatea also provides news segments on Maori issues…

But then again I'm not a slave to any rigid work timetable whereby its convenient to tune in while negotitating the morning and afternoon traffic jam as part of some daily ritual.

Robbie, I think this is probably the main rebuttal to most of your points.

I like your style,…

but now that you mention it...

RNZ already outsources huge amounts of programming

Weekend shows on RNZ ( like Kim Hill Chris Laidlaw etc) have ONE producer. The only shows with more than…

I was thinking more about outsourcing to reputable production companies to produce quality programmes

For crying out loud... if you could pause for just a moment and actually read a few posts upthread, Radio New Zealand National already does this.

Please do not provoke me into further damage to my…

And what would be the *ahem * quality control of a commercial radio station

I was thinking more about outsourcing to reputable production companies to produce quality programmes as opposed to low com denom radio stations sticking with the payola format.

What about time management, working within budget and *ahem * quality control ?

In the service of... profit.

ETA: Also, god I hate hearing these stupid 'business English' terms related to absolutely everything. HATE. It's like we've been taken over by the bloody Borg.

The only business principle is profit.

What about time management, working within budget and *ahem * quality control ?

Sam, you have no need to ETA

I can't post just one!

Hi Russell

Just wanted to point out to Mitch Harris :

RNZ already outsources huge amounts of programming

Weekend shows on RNZ ( like Kim Hill Chris Laidlaw etc) have ONE producer. The only shows with more than one producer…

Talking out one's arse?

You're roughly in the vicinity of a ballpark approximation... A tongue is involved, but no teeth.

I think we're talking about two quite different cultures: one a profit-driven business, and the other the provision of a public service.

yes, but its essentially about delivery of a product with some public services possibly being better catered for by applying business principles to them.

When i think RNZ…

anilingual

Talking out one's arse?

Yes, even given that she was responding to questions, it was unusual — although hardly a break with character ...

Fair enough, but I do enjoy listening to Jim Bolger rather nimbly side-steping questions obviously designed to elicit an indiscreet bitch on Clark or the Government. IMO, Bolger was always…

Um... yes. I think the real story (and even then a rather trivial one) is that I find it rather odd that Clark would insert herself in a domestic political debate the way she did.

Yes, even given that she was responding to questions, it was unusual — although hardly…

Jesus. Fact-checking Drinnan-style ...

Um... yes. I think the real story (and even then a rather trivial one) is that I find it rather odd that Clark would insert herself in a domestic political debate the way she did.

He's a full-time journalist.

He's also writing a glorified gossip column…

[ETA: Beaten by Russell, but here we go anyway. I'd put money that next Friday's column will lead with blog mogul and KNOWN LABOUR SYMPATHISER Russell Brown wading into the radio debate... ]

Yes, probably. I'm just appalled at the fecklessness of that writing. He's a full-time journalist. He has…

the astonishing news that ... the leader of the Save RNZ Facebook campaign is a media studies lecturer who worked for Labour for a bit?

Jake Quinn has even had a blog for some time. Hardly a secret agent.

So Drinnan leads with the astonishing news that ... the leader of the Save RNZ Facebook campaign is…

but you could specify the outcomes you wish to procure and set a deadline for delivery then haggle about the price if it isn't up to standard. Wouldn't that guarantee some sort of impartiality and savings ?

I think we're talking about two quite different cultures: one a profit-driven…

Perhaps the private sector could step in to run a radio station, but would they fund performances and recordings?

Well, possibly, I suppose. It's actually pretty easy for a business to get their name onto the Concert Programme as it stands – they just have to do something productive in…

Former Prime Minister Helen Clark, who has expressed her support for RNZ, is an unlikely champion for public radio.

Under Labour, there was a sense that RNZ drifted into a liberal ghetto that viewed its audience largely as policy analysts based in Kelburn.

Labour's sense of ownership…

spend a fortune and update to something technologically current, cutting edge and reliable, like, er the Telecom XT network...

hah...While installing the network, we virtually had no idea what we were doing, didn't follow protocols/procedures, weren't held accountable but were rushed into getting the job done anyway to the point…

Visionary who designed world's biggest radio telescope, dies aged 92.
An engineer who designed the telescope that discovered the first planets beyond our solar system has died aged 92.
William Gordon was a visionary whose atmospheric work laid the foundation for current…

Do I have to do everything?

Hey I did dig those annual report stats out earlier.. :)

when you look at the way the staff costs are structured (the KPMG report is handy for that), RNZ's are two-thirds production. I'd wager that Radio Live spends a higher proportion on presentation.

One argument I haven't seen so far in favour of RNZ Concert's bias towards old Euro classical…

I think that might be a maths fail Russell.

I presume you've taken 2% of the total broadcasting budget (including TV), and then compared it to the % of radio listeners.

A fairer comparison would be concert gets X% of the government funding that goes towards radio, and gets…

So are you still using antiquated gear that requires turning a dial and pushing a button :) ?

I guess they could spend a fortune and update to something technologically current, cutting edge and reliable, like, er the Telecom XT network...

I'm not convinced the pool of technical and creative expertise within RNZ could be sourced from outside.

Why's that ? Is there an entrenched culture of, this is how its always been done and its worked fine so if it aint fixed then dont break it even more and we'll…

Basically, if you tried to run RNZ on Radio Live's budget, it would end up sounding like Radio Live. Theyre different kind of operations, and Mitch Harris's attempt to apply the thinking of one to the other doesn't hold up.

And that's the key thing, they're different kinds of operations.…

Minimum 80k a year in salary to introduce a programme and push a button is a bit rich ?

But the voices you hear on air are a small proportion of the total staff. RNZ's not, on the whole, a 'push-the-button' operation.

According to him, it makes relatively expensive programmes…

staff cuts : That's definitely short and quick, but not an answer, nor a fix.

The implicaton was, savings could be made by automating broadcasts if they're only playing pre-recorded stuff anyway. Minimum 80k a year in salary to introduce a programme and push a button is a bit rich…

especially when the other business driven fella said he could spit out a shitload of programmes of equal quality for what RNZ gets now.

Apart from the fact that he just made that up, and seemed to have no understanding of what Radio New Zealand actually does.

I find radio jocks to be like preachers, having to be all that all the time in saying the same shit to keep the faithful tuned in. The whole fakeness of being controversial or jovial all the time is just tiresome.

Now thats another problem altogether, and TV doesnt suffer…

re Media 7 : That young turk asking for a bigger public handout for RNZ is dreaming, especially when the other business driven fella said he could spit out a shitload of programmes of equal quality for what RNZ gets now.

Well yeah, 'cause talk is fucking cheap isn't it?…

short answer and quick fix = cut staff

That's definitely short and quick, but not an answer, nor a fix.

But none of what you pay your ISP goes toward paying for what you listen to,

Arrrrgh...yeah you got me there me hearty :) although theres no way one can generate a royalty from a DJ mixset anyway.

re Media 7 : That young turk asking for a bigger public…

In paying my isp provider i'm sort of paying for what i want to listen to

But none of what you pay your ISP goes toward paying for what you listen to, in the same way that paying Duracell for batteries for your radio doesn't.

APRA charging ISPs needle time…

I know you think taxpayer money shouldn't pay for Concert because you think it's an irrelevant and elitist niche station, but who will pay for what you want to listen to?

I dont listen to radio at all and if it takes the loss of advertisers to kill off radio…

404 on your Media Studies link, Geoff. You need to take the public address part of the URL out.

Actually, he needs to use a http:// in his URL.

Fixed now.

oooh i can just hear the rumblings of discontent from the hardline pro-radio massive...Its not real Radio unless you tune it in on a dial :)

There are music channels on Sky & Freeview in digital stereo thru a good DAC Mmmmm
Tuning on a dial was an artform in WW2.

Duplication of services kind of defeats the purpose really ?

I don't suppose you were saying this at the video store when they offered (for a time) both VHS and DVDs of the same films? :)

I listen both via radio and podcasts, at very different times and places, so…

Pre-sets are acceptable. I listen on a Roberts.

There's a "bygone" setting on those to listen to the cricket on Radio 3 in 1976.

Christchurch RNZ Rally had approximately 20 people of varying ages.

ie..if more people are going to hear the content on a clickback from the net…

Duplication of services...

Que? So just hardbacks, no paperbacks or e-readers then?
surely it is a singularity of content and diversity of delivery to accommodate various retrieval systems...

...kind of defeats the purpose really?

and what do you perceive as the purpose?
delivery of content to the most people is…

but you could always stream or podcast if you've go decent broadband and speakers?

oooh i can just hear the rumblings of discontent from the hardline pro-radio massive...Its not real Radio unless you tune it in on a dial :)

Duplication of services kind of defeats the purpose really ?

Does radio still do sunday morning kid stories ? Bad jelly the witch and Flick the little fire engine...those were the days *sigh* now we do cartoons.

I believe NatRad still does Weekend Storytime, and last time I checked bFM also had a kids' show on Sundays.

Weird, but i…

try short wave – hours of fun

Especially on deserted islands.

Isn't this precisely the point?

Hmmm...I wonder why no ones expanded the market for blipverts aimed at children and adults with limited attention span ?

the joys of radio...

try short wave – hours of fun – other countries, satellites, the big bang background noise!
plus it is a great for showing the effects of personal and other electromagnetic fields...
...and if you can get old valve radio with a tuning valve – they're fun…

The thing that kills me about introducing the kids to radio is the ads.

Isn't this precisely the point?

The thing that kills me about introducing the kids to radio is the ads. The music and whatever else is just the filler between the ads that actually pays the bills. We always mute the ads on TV.

Irony alert.

I added a turntable to my stereo system, just so my children could hear what vinyl sounded like.

I had to sell my technics 1210 for parts as the littlies thought it was a merry go round.

Does radio still do sunday morning kid stories ? Bad jelly the witch…

404 on your Media Studies link, Geoff. You need to take the public address part of the URL out.

Apologies for being such a klutz. I just did the old double square brackets thing. If I can't fix it, I guess people can do a cut-and-paste if they want to…

My six year old wouldn't know what a radio was or how to turn it on and tune it but he can hook up the playstation by himself at 6.30 in the morning

There could be many reasons for that, that's right, the simplest things sometimes take the longest explanation.…

I'm struck by the assumption that some high art can justly be funded and some can't.

Paintings are, apparently, all good. Our national collection is housed at Te Papa, which cost $300 million (or 60 years' operating budget for Concert FM) to build, and $36 million annual to run. And…

The flagship University of California system is hundreds of millions of dollars in the red. This is what happens long-term when you expose financial planning to public referenda.

Come to think of it, California itself is in the red. Proposition 13 has a lot to answer for.

My six year old wouldn't know what a radio was or how to turn it on and tune it

You really should introduce him to the joys of radio, to add to the joys of newer media. I added a turntable to my stereo system, just so my children could…

I don't believe it is as seismic a shift nor as dramatic as much of the rhetoric claims.

I agree in the short term, but one only has to look at media and format changes in the last 20 years to extrapolate a seismic shift for the next generation. My…

two different studies of 8-13 year olds does show that radio is still important to this age group (as is TV).

Important in what way and does that importance tail off in the 13 to 18 set when they become more 'puter savvy and an interactively networked social life of…

Terrible realisation: I apparently think most people in NZ totally suck. Oh dear.

Not just most people in NZ – it's a global phenomenon! ;-)

But no, I can only see nightmare scenarios as well. Most people who want this seem to get annoyed about particular issues where they don't…

And natural edifices enhanced for the wind to whistle through sounds like a wicked idea. I'm sure there'd be Creative NZ funding for that :)

Not quite natural structures, but there are artists with interests in that direction, notably Chris Cree Brown.

Craig, The Secret Masters of the Universe riff is yours, not mine

Rich: Well you asked the question. I do think the whole "death of a thousand cuts" meme is balls, but I'll be damned if I'm going to bother trying to rationally engage with people who are absolutely convinced…

Dunno eh but i doubt it. kids these days (just going from my own) don't do radio so are you suggesting it's an adult acquired taste they'll develop in later life ?

Well, the research that Ruth Zanker and I have done on the media use of 8-13 year olds…

I'd love to see us taxpayers... enabled to choose priorities as to where our money goes/is expended.

Am I the only person envisioning nightmare scenarios here?

Uh, yeah. California's had a lot of fun with these kinds of ideas. One result is that the education system is horribly underfunded. The…

I will bet you $100 that it will be. You can collect from my estate, if I am proven wrong and not around to deliver ;-)

Ok, you might still get ham enthusiasts on limited frequencies spitting out nostalgia for no one but their mates. A sort of diehard pirate…

I'd love to see us taxpayers... enabled to choose priorities as to where our money goes/is expended.

Am I the only person envisioning nightmare scenarios here? Complete gutting of the entire welfare system, and an entirely taxpayer-funded daily showing of Sensing Murder?

(Terrible realisation: I apparently think most people in…

stong (albeit heavily mutated)

Shit has it started mutating already....
Phew... Im on a blog.

But yes, what value would be lost? I have a friend whose stereo is tuned to ConcertFM. And the glorious or dark or haunting or weird strands of music that waft from the speakers during…

Do you honestly think radio will still be around in 20 years time ?

I will bet you $100 that it will be. You can collect from my estate, if I am proven wrong and not around to deliver ;-)

Radio is ideally suited to ordinary days and extraordinary days.…

I'd love to see us taxpayers (and almost everybody does in ANZ) enabled to choose priorities as to where our money goes/is expended.
We would, under the rule of law, getting close to a true democracy.

thanx Islander and yup, that would be choice

And some – few- carvings/edifices- actually…

Do you honestly think radio will still be around in 20 years time ?

Well, I can think of one good reason why it still shoud be. I'd very much like to see how civil defence is going to communicate with large numbers of people after The Big One hits,…

Getting into any "secret agenda" conspiracy theory that, by its very nature, cannot be disproved is neither.

Craig, The Secret Masters of the Universe riff is yours, not mine. I don't think there is a secret agenda. I'm of the opinion that these things just happen if you let them…

Oh god. I feel so feeble-minded. Sorry.

This conversation has been so fast and furious, misinterpretation is quite likely. I have already misremembered. I don't recall another recent thread which has attracted this level of response and views.

Feeble-minded? Never!!!

Yup sure was!
Head over to the Southerly post for the Ados reference.

Oh god. I feel so feeble-minded. Sorry.

As far as historically recorded & available stuff is concerned, pictures/carving hold first place. And some – few- carvings/edifices- actually were designed to produce sounds...

I…

Ben, I think you should be reciting this glorious stuff on Concert Radio.

Bedtime with Ben? A bit of slow Vivaldi in the background and I'll have the entire…

...nowhere was it suggested that classical music is the only serious music...

The points about it being serious were both made in answer to questions along the lines of "Why is concert music so special/more deserving than other forms of music?" Geoff's inference was understandable (apart from misremembering it as…

You know, reality.

Ahh yes reality, i knew her well. She used to be a friend of mine but we sort of lost touch a while back. I wonder if shes on facebook ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30RX1yi2V9c

Tell you what Keir. You define yours and me mine, and if they intersect, we'll…

I don't see every leaf on the tree out my window, and remember all of them. I see a tree, which is an abstraction, a generalization, a forgetting of the detail. Some images are retained with great clarity, but not all.

Ben, I think you should be reciting this glorious…

I'm a bit surprised that no-one has explicitly made an argument against the whole 'death of 1000 cuts' thing.

Would there be any point, Rich? I'd rather go over to Kiwibog and try to rationally engage with Master Baiter on one of his "everyone but be is a stinking commie"…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANquX0YHFhw

OK, i'll bite. What real world is this ?

The one where TVNZ returns a dividend, where people listen to music made more than five minutes ago, where the 1930's involved a really quite large gulf between the high and lowbrows certainly as large as today's.

You know, reality.

The pro-cuts group appears to be generally making the argument that the money could be better spent elsewhere, such as, for example, a hospital. Or possibly a refuge for disabled black…

Every child is born with very few memories, if any, but most of us think of that as the best time of our lives, and the other end of life, chewing endlessly over memories is usually considered a bitter time.

But if children were unable to learn from the experiences…

As I recall, you were the one implying that the future could be spun from a vacuum, not me.

I'm not sure where you're coming from or going to with any of this, until you clarify your question about originality. It's not the no-brainer you seem to think.

Yes, I…

iit might be nice if the people arguing against Concert FM's funding started to show a familiarity with the real world

OK, i'll bite. What real world is this ?

(yes I am being nasty, but honestly, if you keep saying things that are basically untrue...)

Nasty? No! More like a breath of fresh air.

I'm guessing you don't make it to a lot of NZSO concerts. I go a couple of times a year: it's a pretty elite event.

Well, no, I don't go. It's horridly middle-brow, darling. It isn't a very elite event in a lot of ways.

Not a lot of light…

Possibly even something original :-). I live in hope.

As I recall, you were the one implying that the future could be spun from a vacuum, not me.

your definition of 'Hispanic' doesn't, like, include Spain.

That's a matter of some debate in the US.

Sometimes a simple heartfelt "just because" is good to hear.

And I thought I was being all cold and logical about it.

I second the need for Radio Danielle, but request that there be a regular arse-serving slot in there for people like me who are prone to wanting to…

So you can't then?

I can, but it's your challenge. I'd just make it too easy. I just flossed my teeth in what is quite possibly an order that has never been done before.

If you're struggling with a definition, maybe some examples would help me get the feel of…

Sigh. There were indeed women both composing and performing, all the way through, and it's not their fault that most of us haven't heard of them.

Good lookin out Jolisa. I humbly stand corrected.

Concerts take time and concentration. Concerts are about serious music – not necessarily European classical music – Indonesian gamelan and Hirini…

There weren't, if any, women, blacks, hispanics and certainly no Kiwi's in its probably first 500 years.

Sigh. There were indeed women both composing and performing, all the way through, and it's not their fault that most of us haven't heard of them.

Thanks to Russell for quietly and repeatedly…

Try it. Come up with something COMPLETELY original. Go on! No cheating now – no using an established language – or alphabet or anything passe like that.

Define original.

So you can't then?

Try it. Come up with something COMPLETELY original. Go on! No cheating now – no using an established language – or alphabet or anything passe like that.

Define original.

There weren't, if any, women, blacks, hispanics and certainly no Kiwi's in its probably first 500 years.

Soooooo clearly the people who assembled this list were just making it up?

I'd particularly like to draw your attention to the name of Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179), with whom many timelines of…

That is the fallacy of induction.

Try it. Come up with something COMPLETELY original. Go on! No cheating now – no using an established language – or alphabet or anything passe like that.

You've confused cultural capital and multiculturalism.

Probably. In this instance, i was thinking in terms of accruing non material wealth from diverse ethnic/cultural backgrounds in the form of music, which then adds value and influences the wider mainstream culture.

not the same thing ?

complaining about the lack of Chinese…

I'd say a culture that doesn't know its past — even the unfashionable and/or socio-politically uncomfortable bits — doesn't have a future worth the having.

Gonna call bollocks on that. I'd way rather be a culture with no past than one with no future. I think that feeling was even…

Because it doesn't come in little sound bites. Concerts take time and concentration. Concerts are about serious music – not necessarily European classical music – Indonesian gamelan and Hirini Melbourne and Richard Nunns recreation of early Maori music, for instance. Music with something…

Hah, I have the lever that can break u now! Ranapia won't talk, eh? Put him on the .... Board!! Muaahaha!

Thanks you, Ben, I expose my soft wet liberal pussy heart and that's what I get. I'm just going to have to go eat a baby now — and…

Who said that?

Well, I approvingly quoted Jan Farr as saying that CONCERT music is serious, rather than 'classical' music.

And I really think that's an important distinction. People seem to have run off with the idea that we're only talking old world classical music when we're defending Concert Radio.

Just in terms of some of the judgements being made about cultural value/cultural capital (evoking Bourdieu) eg classical music is 'serious'.

Who said that?

I was attempting to avoid naming names but Jan Farr did so some time back,

I know it's me but I'm buggered if I can find…

Where as in the whole 600 years of the western hemisphere as defined by classsical music. There weren't, if any, women, blacks, hispanics and certainly no Kiwi's in its probably first 500 years.

Umm, the part about women is a reasonable point, but the rest would be like me complaining…

True, but I'd also not particularly like to live in a society that prioritized the past over the future too much.

I'd say a culture that doesn't know its past — even the unfashionable and/or socio-politically uncomfortable bits — doesn't have a future worth the having. Also a relevant corollary:…

Actually no. I'd say C&W has more just cos of Charlie Pride, Freddie Fender and the Dixie Chicks and what the hell, Keith Urban just cos he's an NZer.

Where as in the whole 600 years of the western hemisphere as defined by classsical music. There weren't, if any, women, blacks,…

True, but I'd also not particularly like to live in a society that prioritized the past over the future too much.

Actually, Ben, as others have said before, there's nowhere for the future to arise from but the past. And is anyone in this debate actually yearning for the past…

but you're saying 60 years of the music of one end of one country has as much "cultural capital" as 600 years of the music of the entire western hemisphere?

Actually no. I'd say C&W has more just cos of Charlie Pride, Freddie Fender…

swallow...don't spit :)

Maybe just a trickle "like a genius".

BE YOUR OWN MESSIAH..."

ahhh yes... words to live by

My review meeting is in an hour, how do…

Nevertheless, publically I would most probably defend the continuing existence of Concert FM if it is shown to be serving a public godo, its demise would cause great concern, people would be out of a job etc.

More than a hundred people have lost jobs at TVNZ (there are only…

I'd certainly applaud a little honest self-examination on that score.

I'd also applaud it, but I sure don't expect it.

My idea of hell would be serving on the board of Creative New Zealand or NZ on Air.

Hah, I have the lever that can break u now! Ranapia won't…

In the end, I just find it hard to swallow the NZ Herald as the white knight riding to the rescue of public service broadcasting

But no one's asking you to. It's just one columnist (who I'm not sure is even a full-time employee) making some worthwhile points in a…

Hey, that's *my* soul station, Geoff! I am brandishing my brick from the Stax building as we speak.

Grovel, grovel. I will beat myself over the head with a stack of student essays. Of course it is!! I could send you my ticket stub from the Al Green concert as…