Hard News: Crashing the party before it starts
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I see David Cunliffe has an open invite to a state of the nation event happening soon. I also remember dancing to Che Fu at a part conference some year ago.
It seems the electoral commission’s policy on treating is related to
1. how big is your party
2. how much fun are you likely to have at this eventIt’s not good enough. For many young people going to a concert and hearing the artists speak between songs IS political discourse the commision should stay out of it
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Whatever it is, it’s not going to affect this election.
OK, so Kim Dotcom is just Bob Jones for hipsters? Good to know.
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I think the Internet Party can best be seen as a fusion of cyberlibertarians and social liberals. Some overseas Pirate Parties (ie Australia) have adopted issues like euthanasia law reform, for instance. And some cyberlibertarians are quite willing to provide tactical and logistical advice on issues like (say) surveillance camera reach and street sex work.
For instance...http://www.techliberty.org.nz
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Craig Young, in reply to
Which would lead to cries of outrage and invective hurled in their direction from the likes of Maurice Williamson within the National caucus. And justifiably so, considering the Communication Decency Bill was declared unconstitutional ages ago within the United States.
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
Very good point. The EC is (maybe, they haven't released any reasoning for their position) taking a maximalist approach that unless a political meeting is kept to a minimum standard of dullness, it's considered to be an orgy of corruption.
(Even though such corruption isn't even possible. When "treating" was first proscribed, candidates could (and did) have an open bar next to the hustings, and were able to ply the voters with beer/gin/laudanum and observe them voting in the desired fashion. Dotcom would have had no idea whether his party attendees stay in bed or vote for another party on election day).
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Paul Campbell, in reply to
So it seems that the Electoral Commission are the source of the legal advice?I'm guessing it went like this:
- Party yay
- Whaleoiil leak with free wifi detail
- "Free wifi is a bribe"
- "If free wifi is a bribe, what about a massive party for 25,000 people?"
- "Shit."I kind of imagine it was more likely Graeme saying "you're doing what?"
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Paul Campbell, in reply to
(Even though such corruption isn't even possible. When "treating" was first proscribed, candidates could (and did) have an open bar next to the hustings, and were able to ply the voters with beer/gin and observe them voting in the desired fashion. Dotcom would have had no idea whether his party attendees stay in bed or vote for another party on election day).
I think that the proscription against treating is still a good thing, I can imagine a situation where one party might be able to afford a far larger bar than another - I'm very much in favour of anything that disconnects the marketplace of ideas that is an election and the financial marketplace and the ideas that it might favour
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Moz, in reply to
I think that the proscription against treating is still a good thing, I can imagine a situation where one party might be able to afford a far larger bar than another
Or merely a far better legal team than another, so that their "party meeting with free entertainment" is deemed to meet the rules because the rule-makers don't want to start that fight, but a smaller, poorer party with a less impressive legal team is told that their event breaches the rule.
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I think while Dotcoms new party provides internet based political junkies some excitement the reality is that it probably won't have any more impact that the McGillicuddy Serious Party, which, were it reincarnated now would probably receive the same breathless analysis as the Internet Party - because it appeals to 'disenfranchised yoof'.
Hate to sound old and cynical but young people have always been disinterested in politics whether it was because it was more fun to go to the pub or play World of Warcraft. So what's changed?
Just because 15,000 kids (might) turn up to a free party and click 'like' on Facebook or follow a twitter feed on their smart phones doesn't mean they will actually feel motivated enough to trudge out and vote on the day (if they even bothered to register).
So Dotcom has an axe to grind, Bob Jones's NZ Party ring a bell?
Having an axe to grind and then trying to retrofit a political movement around it isn't just a matter at throwing some money at PR consultants and political 'scientists'. A political movement and a one-man band (think Peter Dunne or Jim Anderton) are two different things and usually one-man parties start from disaffected MP's with an electorate support base.
The contradictions are already so obvious that as soon as the initial fun lets-have-a-free-piss-up party period wears off the yoof will go back to doing what they were doing before the passing distraction of dotcom appeared on the internet.
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were it reincarnated now would probably receive the same breathless analysis as the Internet Party – because it appeals to ‘disenfranchised yoof’.
But...they weren't even funny when I was a yoof. Maybe when my parents were yoofs that joke might have been fresh. Dotcom is at least a new joke. I'd vote for fat German internet freedom pirates over Monty Python Scottish monarchs any day (if that were the only choice).
Not that I would actually vote for either in reality. Didn't Dotcom give heaps of money to that utter fuxor John Banks?
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Paul Campbell, in reply to
I think while Dotcoms new party provides internet based political junkies some excitement the reality is that it probably won't have any more impact that the McGillicuddy Serious Party, which, were it reincarnated now would probably receive the same breathless analysis as the Internet Party ....
Um ... quick trivia: which McGillicuddy Serious Party candidate is now an MP and party leader of a NZ political party?
(and as far as I can tell from New Year Eve's shenanigans is still an unrepentant McGillicuddy ....)
Bob Jones never made it into parliament
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Why Dotcom really wants to play politics anyway, eludes me....
If he wants to promulgate change about, and via, the net,
why wouldn't he stick to his knitting and show what a mobilised web can do best; inform and act as a contact medium as well as a gateway, while finding commonalities and tailoring involved communities both on and off-line.
(or something like that)Why hobble himself with the restrictions that path throws up?
Maybe he could aggregate some of the kind of tools Keith and others have generated here, for different demographics, etc
Why can't his net-nous be applied to make informed voting 'cool' somehow:
- hell one Matt Smith 'Who's future is it - Voting's cool' spot would prep several generations...
(But it just wouldn't look right coming from the new Spin-Doctor Who, Peter Capaldi, somehow...)
;- )- Sim Civics for growing and engaging the generations to come,
all people want is a role to play ...- Become a lobby group, take a speaking tour round the country, with sign up booths and some bands as well - he could do it that way if he's not looking for votes...
- Create the new virtual street corner forum perhaps?
(as stumping the hustings seems to be a dying art...)...that's if he wants to stay non-partisan - or he could help/advise whoever he thinks will best pursue the end he wants, that'd be the honest way to go - he really won't wanna be stuck in The House all day...
</presumptuous unsolicited advice>
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
Maybe he saw the amount of leverage ACT gets with negligible popular support.
I wonder whether if Mega gets to over 1%, Labour might gift them a seat. Then he'll have an MP in place and be able to make a few minor demands (file lockers excluded from scope of criminal copyright would suffice, as that would make him unextraditable and allow his business to prosper in reasonable safety).
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Rob Stowell, in reply to
Why Dotcom really wants to play politics anyway, eludes me….
Grudge.
Along with a bit of strategy around the pending extradition to face serious jail-time in the USA ... -
Graeme Edgeler, in reply to
OK, so Kim Dotcom is just Bob Jones for hipsters? Good to know.
My comment was about the impossibility of Internet voting at this election.
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Sacha, in reply to
why wouldn’t he stick to his knitting and show what a mobilised web can do best
because he realises the impact of increasing regulatory/spying activity on anyone's ability to do just that?
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Paul Williams, in reply to
</presumptuous unsolicited advice>
It's far better than the advice he's paid for however.
I assumed his motivation was comparable with Julian Assange's.
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izogi, in reply to
My comment was about the impossibility of Internet voting at this election.
My comment was about the view I might form of this party based on its policies (if it actually has any). :)
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Moz, in reply to
I assumed his motivation was comparable with Julian Assange's.
You mean personal aggrandisement without regard for anything else? Or did you miss the implosion of the wikileaks party before the Australian election, largely as a result of the two Assange's treating the party as their personal toy? I'd hope that Dotcom is more respectful of his supporters than that.
I have to say that that brouhaha did more to convince me that there's substance behind the rape allegations than anything else he's done since leaving Sweden. Misrepresentation, ignoring (lack of) consent, huge sense of entitlement, refusing to understand that other people have rights and feelings, it was all there.
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Moz, I don’t have a view on whether Assange is a sex criminal or not, nor do I have a view about Dotcom’s alleged crimes. That said, I wasn’t surprised by the disastrous performance of the Wikileaks Party.
Personally, I’m torn between the view that amateurs shouldn’t expect politics is easy and the view that politics really should be easy and more accessible. I’ve also thought it’s a pity Nandor Tanczos isn’t still in Parliament.
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Jos,
If he can get all the 18+ people off their asses to wander down to a voting booth for a bit of a novelty and the buzz of changing something he will romp in with a swag of friends. There are a lot of spare votes out there!
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nzlemming, in reply to
he will romp in with a swag of friends
Actually, he won't as he needs to be a citizen, not just a resident.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Bob Jones never made it into parliament
Apparently it wasn't exactly the intention to begin with. Jones was more trying to split Muldoon's vote by way of the vagaries of FPP.
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Richard Aston, in reply to
Um … quick trivia: which McGillicuddy Serious Party candidate is now an MP and party leader of a NZ political party?
Would that be Metiria Ture ?
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I can't find a website or facebook page for the NZ Internet party.
Seems a pretty basic thing to have for an party focused on the net or am I missing something?
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