Hard News: Because I am weak
115 Responses
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nat, park and ride my friend. park, and ride.
does actually work a treat in melbourne, even in the suburbs outside the tram reach.
plus the atmosphere on public transport on game days is pretty fantastic. no grumpy commuters, just really excited and or apprehensive fans.
lastly, you can catch the PT back out to your wheels/neighbourhood, and taxi it back to your crib after all that tui for a big saving in $$.
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The Chinese have created a huge about of new stadiums for the Olympics, lets get them here to build the water front stadium on time ;-)
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With the ABs outstanding game the amazing thing is they still left room for improvement and could have gone to 60 points, however, with the performance of local and central government in relation to the stadia it can only get worse.
The stadia situation should have been resolved to a significant degree well before the bid for hosting the RWC was made.
The situation is a total shambles, the end result will be sub optimal in comparison to what could have been achieved had a proper site location and then design process been followed.
The motivation for all this frantic activity and commitment from the mayor dick in a box and the government is vanity; the final and the stadia will provide a great feel good photo and spectacular knees up.
Cripes I won’t be able to afford a ticket to the final so what do I care save for the fact that as an Aucklander I will be paying for it for decades to come.
The reason the stadia take a fast track over Auckland’s long suffering public transport and infrastructure is that mayor dick in a box and the government don’t catch buses.
Can’t help think part of it is a NIMBY reaction from Helen. The problem with the waterfront location is the completed stadia will likely sink.
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I agree with Che's enthusiasm for Park and Ride. In the timeframe this may just work to offset the need for stadium parking.
Given the geography and historically woefully forethought for the likes of rail in Auckland - (aside: I still can't believe that new subdivisions don't have a PT element mandated) - P&R is the only sensible option to quickly retrofit a PT system. However, we have to have secure and convenient carparks with frequent and reliable links to where we want to go. Otherwise we'll just take the car all the way.
I work in Mairangi Bay and on many occasions I've used the Northern Express into the city, for meetings, rather than take the car the whole way. The bus service is just about frequent enough and the cost is very competitive with the cost of running the car and paying for parking. But, both the Albany and Constellation Stations' carparks are often full to overflowing by 8am. Whose bright idea was it to put such a tiny cap on the size of the carparks? Considering the Northern Busway isn't even complete, I think this shows the sort of forward-thinking that the city has with respect to P&R.
If you can't park you're not going to ride.
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Auckland has terrible weather...
hehe I was just stirring, and it's nice to see someone bit. I remember hearing from a couple of Americans that they had never been in a city with more rain the Auckland ... and they were from Seattle! :).
Actually I don't think rain is the problem and personally I think rugby players should play in the rain. I think the major issue for grass is cold and it's in places like the northern states of the US where having a stadium with a with roof is essential. To be honest there is nowhere in NZ with that kind of weather, not even Dunedin.
cheers
Bart -
Steve V wrote:
The Chinese have created a huge about of new stadiums for the Olympics, lets get them here to build the water front stadium on time ;-)Yup, must be wonderful when you don't have to worry about tiresome things like labour and environmental standards. :)
RB wrote:
I'm inclined to regard contestability as a distraction in a project like this. After all, a tendering process didn't exactly provide a quality result in the case of the Vector Arena.This thing will cost more than they're saying at the moment, but it would be nice to see an independent assessment of its deliverability. At the moment, everyone who says it can or can't be done seems to have a vested interest in what they're saying.
Well, perhaps you have a point but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect rigorous public scrutiny and debate when there's hundreds of millions of dollars in public money involved. A rigorous genuinely independent assessment would be nice, but I just don't think it's going to happen in the next two weeks. Do you? I can understand the politics of trying to have commitments made quickly, but I have my doubts whether 'marry in haste, repent at leisure' is a particularly good basis for a massive infrastructure project with significant long-term consequences.
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agree with Che's enthusiasm for Park and Ride.
Or (shudder!) Walk and Ride? That's probably going to be impossible in Auckland until it reaches the density of proper cities, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
But why not put special shuttle buses on when there's a game at the stadium? Wellington does.
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Yawn...
Anyone tired of this yet?Beautiful stadiums: Beijing's Bird's Nest for the next Olympics and these ones that didn't make it
Innovative design: the Arizona Cardinal's University of Phoenix Stadium (note the glass roof and sliding field)
Waterfront location in a busy city: The New York Sports and Convention Center
Which is the odd one out?
The New York one was never built as it was not wanted by the local popluation (the people who were coughing up a lot of the dough and would have caused transport chaos. Even though it would have its own subway terminal, 75,000 people will snarl up any system.
I suggest a test. Tell 70,000 people to make their way to Auckland's waterfront by a certain time. Once they are all there tell them to go home again. Sit back and watch the fun. Take careful note of all the people not from Auckland or from the Shore for whom Britomart is pretty but useless.
According to Stuff, Minister of Sport, Trevor Mallard, said that Carlaw Park (by a motorway and a rain station) was out of equation as
a private developer already had a contract for the area, three hectares of the domain would need to be used and several hundred trees felled
and that
roading also ran too close to the proposed area for the park leaving inadequate space for people filling a 60,000 seat stadium to spill out on to afterwards
So what does he have in mind for Customhouse Quay with 60,000 people crossing it after a game?
I still think that a stadium out at the base of the Bombays would be awesome and would force some high speed rail lines (ala Tokyo) to be built. But if we HAVE to build on the waterfront could we at least get started?
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Tom: currently Eden Park does special trains to games (or at least did a few years ago). A lot of international stadiums do shuttle buses but that's normally to complement the cars, there never seems to be a multi-transport option, 'cept for the Caketin.
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Yes Tom. I think engineering the stadium precincts to be an "urban public space" that you might want to wander around is a challenge.
We might not even get any more access to the stadium area than we do to the wharves: Eden Park is locked away behind a fence when there isn't a game on.
And "extras" like public access are unlilely to happen fro two reasons:
- they'll cost money
- the RMA, which would normally mandate these things, is going to be bypassed by a Stadium Act. -
The irony is that should Auckland get its act together to build a 60000 seat stadium, it would most certailnly only ever be filled during the 2011 World Cup, and for occasional important Test matches.
Aucklanders have proved themselves over the years to be very unloyal and disinterested in their Provincial sports teams. Indeed I believe every time they have lost the Ranfurly Shield it has been in half empty stadiums, where the Challengers had as many supporters there as the A Team.
Prehaps the most sensible idea is to get Christchurch to build this thing and host the WC final, as they have the right kind of Provincial enthusiasm to make proper use of such a facility.
I am from Wellington and have no particular fondness for ChCh per se, but I think my observation is accurate. -
to be honest? i agree with hudsie.
what's also great about melbourne is the love of sports. you could put on putt-putt at the MCG and you'll get 30k punters turn up.
further, tom's suggestion re: the additional PT during events is in line with my thinking. if you're spending a billion on a stadium (let's face facts, this will runneth over like the preverbial), then a few hundred k to keep the fans from driving drunk is very small change indeed.
and hadyn, people will spill out of the stadium and into the crowded and raucus bars of the downtown area. melbourne during the last rugby world cup was un-be-freakin-leivable.
as for getting started, there's a story that the old railways department has dozens of old carriages 'stored' off the end fo the wharves in auckland, so at least the stadium will have sound foundations....
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doh. meant to say, "lets build this in ChCh instead".
matthewB, edit function?
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But we don't want it. The stadium, not the edit function. It's just not worth the crap, and most people I know down here had their thumbs on their foreheads the minute it was suggested that Christchurch be the emergency back-up bridesmaid if Auckland can't sort its shit out. We know you don't mean it anyway. Any plan that got kicked down to Christchurch would be even further behind with planning funding and RMA consents.
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Tell 70,000 people to make their way to Auckland's waterfront by a certain time. Once they are all there tell them to go home again.
Hadyn, I agree with Che on this one: the whole idea is that they don't have to go home again, at least not straight away. The idea is to give people something to do afterwards by having them downtown. That's assuming that Auckland actually has a downtown now, of course.
That also means that some bars will probably resort to the trick Matterhorn played during the Golden Oldies: put out a "closed for private function" sign. The regulars know better and go in anyway, and most of the fans would probably enjoy themselves more down in the local sports bar.
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Here's the Sunday Star-Times article on Hansen's moves: Beating the odds in Wayne's world.
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matthewB, edit function?
Yep, editing of one's own posts is in the works. Until then why not try that Preview button ;-)
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Auckland Stadium blah blah blah …. Che Tibby is heading down the right track. Let’s have the final in Melbourne; they have a stadium or 3 not to mention the PT infrastructure, bars and good shopping to boot. The government could subsidise the travel and accommodation costs for AB supporters visiting our home away from home, (a bit like sending people “into the west” for medical treatment). Who knows, by 2011 Australia might be part of Aotearoa anyway, we have the water.
And yes the AB’s were awesome, they deserver better than the bollox going on at home.
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If we truly need a massive "world class stadium" in NZ, why has it not been raised till right now? It might be great to have the final of the RWC there, but surely its more important that we get this thing right - we only get one chance.
If the idea of delaying building the stadium, and thereby missing the World Cup, is unacceptable, the question needs to be asked; do we really need it? I think the answer to this question is no. Sure, the World Cup is a catalyst but if it's the be all and end all of it, why bother?
That’s a fairly simple question that doesn't seem to have been answered yet.
Personally I would rather wait and keep pushing for the waterfront to be developed for a decent public open space (eternal optimist...) that everyone can enjoy. Not just sports enthusiasts.
At least this argument has started the Ports thinking seriously about moving and helped Aucklanders realise that we really want something better for our harbour edge.
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Eden park is the spiritual home of Auckland rugby and I can't see a reason to build another stadium (and I'm not just saying that because I can walk to the South Stand.) We won the 1987 world cup there and we will defend the cup there in 2011. I have no faith in our ability to finish a stadium in time. Let alone understand the governments dogmatic determination to drive it through so undiplomatically. (agree or Christchurh gets it? Stick it Mallard.) It will take more than some photo-shopped stadiums overlayed over the current wharf to convince me of its design merits. And if we f**k up another world cup bid by not completing a stadium, we will NEVER be given another chance, even if the AB's win every world cup till year 3000.
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everyone can enjoy. Not just sports enthusiasts.
Or music enthusiasts: one of the best things about not having the stadium at Nimbyville, I mean Eden Park, is that it'll be easier to have concerts there.
As for "decent public open space", the only open space that I really enjoyed when I lived in Auckland was Vulcan Lane. Is that still any good?
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Eden park is the spiritual home of Auckland rugby
And Athletic Park was the spiritual home of Wellington rugby. We got over it.
It will take more than some photo-shopped stadiums overlayed over the current wharf to convince me of its design merits.
From what I gather, there hasn't been a design per se yet, just conceptual renderings to show that yes, you can squeeze some sort of stadium into the space (sort of). Can anyone confirm that?
And if we f**k up another world cup bid by not completing a stadium, we will NEVER be given another chance, even if the AB's win every world cup till year 3000.
Very true. From my relative outsider's perspective, Carlaw Park sounded like a good idea, but it's hard to tell, and I think the waterfront location is way better than Eden Park (we've got to stop building stuff randomly all over the place). So I'm happy to support the waterfront idea in the spirit of getting things done.
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It occurs to me that the need is as much for something looks great on TV, as it is to fit in the extra punters for a one-shot final.
The last WC in Aussie had a cumulative world television audience of 3.5 billion.
A waterfront stadium would fit the bill as a very telegenic 'jewel in the crown', cue endless helicopter shots of our fair city. Cue lasting impressions and visitor numbers sustained well beyond the Cup itself. Check out the video presentation to get the idea.
Its something that Eden Park wouldn't do so well - scenic fly-by of Sandringham in-fill housing anyone? - and surely the threat of Jade stadium is just a stick to goad grumpy Aucklanders - what could be more motivating than losing out to Christchurchians?
And as for the dark mutterings about deals worked out behind closed doors, and 'done-deal' conspiracy theories, surely this sort of last-minute-oh-i-hadn't-thought-of-that is the standard play for organising big things in this little country.
Does no one remember how well organised we were for the 2003 World Cup, the one we had a share of then lost? Surely the fact that we pitched for and won this one is an exceptional (*exceptional*) performance, not a benchmark for how things get done.
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I suspect, as a proud Wellingtonian watching you lot in Auckland, (I lived there too in the late 60's/early 70's) that the biggest threat to whether you/we host the final of the RWC is the petty parochial politics of Auckland.
You so badly need to develop some sense of unity and common interest.
You so badly need to have a positive vision of the future which is risk taking and adventurous - like every great city overseas and, dare I say it, Wellington.For God's sake Auckland, get your act together and just build the best National Stadium you can - on the waterfront.
It will be your new iconic building.
You can build it on time too, if you stop whingeing and get behind it!
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So... tell me: what is the "rugby" that you speak of?
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