Well, I know some Herald reporters are reading ...

They read? You mean they don't just regurgitate garth georges cast offs?

Could've fooled me. Ahh well I have fond memories of papers that used to fact check.

Yup I agree the thread is over – I do so love seeing people who know a little history – even history of the net:). Everyone is repeating themselves now. I certainly don't know enough to be sure I'm right in my opinion and I haven't seen anything…

It's difficult to keep track without being an obsessive news-junkie, but I don't seem to have heard anyone asking the hard questions about the mess Eden Park is currently in.

Well, I know some Herald reporters are reading ...

Let's face it, Auckland as a whole can't even agree to chop a tree down without expending vast quantities of…

Apparently they have such large debt that they are overcapitalised if they want to re-develop the site as housing or…

If Eden Park were upgraded, would there be times the ground would be unavailable, or major parts of the grandstand unavailable at times it was needed?

You'd lose Eden Park No.2, where most of the cricket is actually played, immediately, and you wouldn't get it back. I assume the rest…

Chris says "Yesteray I stood at the Britomart bus terminal and looked out across the road and saw North Head and Rangitoto quite clearly and easily".…

For once, there seems to be broad agreement that (a) a new/improved stadium is…

I'm sorry, but have you seen what's there now? It's a carpark for used Japanese vehicles and a mooring for the huge vessels that carry them there. It's behind a 10-foot iron fence, and offers no public view whatsoever of the harbour.

Yesteray I stood at the Britomart bus terminal…

That is, if the waterfront…

But after listening to all the palaver going on between all the unbiased parties, I have changed my mind for…

As you say Russell, plenty of empty parking buildings and…

A good year with Blues making the…

Well done Bert, a comparison to Nazi Germany and Hitler before the 100th post.

Next please!

Lets crunch some numbers for people wondering if it's worth it.

60,000 people paying on average 100 dollars for a tri Nations test or WC test or Lions test or whatever at least once a year equals 6 million dollars.

That's right. 6 million dollars for one…

Lets for a moment assume that the Auckland waterfront stadium never happens, what will the waterfront site look like in twenty years time? My lazy $5 is on a carpark for used car imports.

I tend to think the same thing. I've yet to see any movement on "opening up…

Why spend 500 mill to 1 bill on a stadium? Here is a good clue. This will be 10 years on and with a lot more tourists. My guess is even if we (the country) spend a billion on the stadia upgrades…

Ah, so a national stadium funded by the whole nation shouldn't be commented upon by those south of the Bombays?

No, it just seemed unduly bitchy given the taxpayer money ploughed into national assets in Wellington over the years.

I was thinking of a particular Dom Post column last week whining about the potential cost and casting aspersions on Auckland. It seemed a bit rich.

Ah, so a national stadium funded by the whole nation shouldn't be commented upon by those south of the Bombays?

And the cost is…

it looks like a goddam haemorrhoid cushion

Sigh. It seems to me that any proper stadium (as opposed to the random collections of stands that make up most of our sports grounds) is going to be roughly toroidal. Thus, it'll be pretty easy for any detractor to liken it to…

Really? Maybe you should. It was a councillor who, on your behalf demanded a 50 year plan rather than a stadium.

Quite. That was a monumentally weird thing to say in the circumstances. Did she want to look completely daft?

I'd love it if Aucklanders could grow up and lose the enourmous chip on their shoulders about Wellington; given the way it's infected Russell of late, I guess neither of us will be getting what we want.

I was thinking of a particular Dom Post column last week whining about…

Really? Maybe you should. It was a councillor who, on your behalf demanded a 50 year plan rather than a stadium. All well and good, but as I intimated above…

As I understand it, the waterfront site sits on land that's an important part of the Port's container operations (as opposed…

ONLY ONE OPTION- upgrade Eden Park-(clip ons may the best option-take them down post 2011). Waterfront is a dead ugly dude. Now you got the big LCD/plasma-good television sets- major factor. (Counties-Manukau at Mt Smart? (Better start winning a few). It will be one third full…

Aucklanders are right to be resistant to a major change on our waterfront foisted on us seemingly at the last minute by Wellington politicians who seem to have little regard for what Aucklanders actually think (or, at least, didn't bother to find out).

I'd love it if Aucklanders could grow…

...your demands 50 year plan

My 50 year plan? I would be quite happy with a 5 year plan for now (I'm guessing that is what your second sentance means – it's a bit cryptic), but I'm not going to stick it to councillors who are doing their job by…

I was lucky enough to be in SF when this came online:

AT & T Park

and living just across the road as it happened. In terms of transforming the arse-end of a…

See my "patronising" comment about your demands 50 year plan. The real crime is that this is a demand *now* when we should be focussing on 2011.

We do have some representation through Trevor Mallard, sorry if that offends you.

Come on Aucklanders, time to stop behaving like a bunch of petulant school kids.

Aucklanders are right to be resistant to a major change on our waterfront foisted on us seemingly at the last minute by Wellington politicians who seem to have little regard for what Aucklanders actually think (or,…

I fully agree with Davesparks as to the value of the TV shots of an iconic stadium showing off Aucklands waterfront to the world, especially if Yamis' idea of hosting a couple of matches in Australia's Football World Cup of 2014/2018 is more than a pipedream.…

The embarrasing and astounding lack of public architecture in this country in favour of tilt slab commericial hell is beyond belief.

Visit many overseas cities and the civic pride associated with striking architectural feats and look back home and weep. Take Bilbao, population of CHCH, add some innovative…

Tony, the waterfront is not the best site, it has its advantages to be sure, but the drawbacks -…

the idea is to build something that'll be used for 10 or 15 years, then upgraded.…

I was saying that Carlaw Park should have been redeveloped to be the number one stadium in Auckland years back when the Auckland Rugby league went tot he ACC and asked them if they would get behind it.

Unbelievably they said stuff…

There are two questions about this no one seems to…

Aucklanders have proved themselves over the years to be very unloyal and disinterested in their Provincial sports teams. Indeed I believe every time they have lost the Ranfurly Shield it has been in half empty stadiums, where the Challengers had as many supporters there as the A Team.

Us Aucklanders…

The New York one was never built as it was not wanted by the local popluation (the people who were coughing up a lot of the dough and would have caused transport chaos. Even though it would have its own subway terminal, 75,000 people will snarl up any system.

The…

You so badly need to develop some sense of unity…

The last WC in Aussie had a cumulative world television audience of 3.5 billion.

A waterfront stadium would fit the bill…

Eden park is the spiritual home of Auckland rugby

And Athletic Park was the spiritual home of Wellington rugby. We got over it.

It will take more than some photo-shopped stadiums overlayed over the current wharf to convince me of its design merits.

From what I gather, there hasn't been…

everyone can enjoy. Not just sports enthusiasts.

Or music enthusiasts: one of the best things about not having the stadium at Nimbyville, I mean Eden Park, is that it'll be easier to have concerts there.

As for "decent public open space", the only open space that I really enjoyed when…

If…

matthewB, edit function?

Yep, editing of one's own posts is in the works. Until then why not try that Preview button ;-)

Tell 70,000 people to make their way to Auckland's waterfront by a certain time. Once they are all there tell them to go home again.

Hadyn, I agree with Che on this one: the whole idea is that they don't have to go home again, at least not straight away.…

matthewB, edit function?

what's also great about melbourne is the love of sports. you could put on putt-putt at the MCG and you'll get 30k punters turn up.

further, tom's suggestion re: the additional PT during events is in line with my thinking. if you're spending…

We might not even get any more access to the stadium area than we do to the wharves: Eden Park is locked away behind a fence…

Beautiful stadiums: Beijing's Bird's Nest for the next Olympics and these ones that didn't make it

Innovative design: the Arizona Cardinal's University of Phoenix Stadium (note the glass roof and sliding field)

Waterfront location in a busy city: The [[http://nymag.com/nymetro/realestate/urbandev/features/9307/|New York Sports and Convention…

agree with Che's enthusiasm for Park and Ride.

Or (shudder!) Walk and Ride? That's probably going to be impossible in Auckland until it reaches the density of proper cities, and that's not going to happen any time soon.

But why not put special shuttle buses on when there's a game…

Yup, must be wonderful when you don't have to worry about tiresome things like labour and environmental standards. :)

RB wrote:…

Auckland has terrible weather...

hehe I was just stirring, and it's nice to see someone bit. I remember hearing from a couple of Americans that they had never been in a city with more rain the Auckland ... and they were from Seattle! :).

Actually I don't think rain is…

Given the geography and historically woefully forethought for the likes of rail in Auckland – (aside: I still can't believe that new subdivisions don't have a PT…

The stadia situation should have been resolved to a…

does actually work a treat in melbourne, even in the suburbs outside the tram reach.

plus the atmosphere on public transport on game days is pretty fantastic. no grumpy commuters, just really excited and or apprehensive fans.

lastly, you can catch…

Apparently, the IRB would be happy with a revamped Eden Park, so I don't think that option could be dismissed…

Like Russell I think the current use of the waterfront is ugly and essentially useless to most kiwis, unless you import and sell used Japanese cars.

I live down Dominion Road and I love watching cricket on the number 2 ground so I'm not keen on a revamped Eden…

With all due respect, Russell, I've three words for anyone who will do any such thing: Multiplex, Wembley Stadium.

A cautionary tale indeed. But there are some significant differences too. The Football Association was the commissioning client and got in a complete mess three years before the government came in…

Aren't Tongariro National Park, Fijordland and the Southern Alps "great public spaces" enough for us?

Not really: we need great urban public spaces. On the other hand, I don't really see stadia as being public spaces, compared to streets, squares and parks.

Stadia are difficult to integrate into urban settings,…

With all due respect, Russell, I've three words for anyone who will do any such thing: Multiplex, Wembley Stadium. It would also be rather nice…

Anyway, I have a suggestion for…

If…

would…

I mean, what did we go to the IRB with last year?,

Why has it taken a year since the…

How well I remember the very last test played at Athletic Park. The French were run ragged in a freezing cold Southerly and it seemed as…

After all isn't the port area owned by the ports? And don't they need that land for running a port?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the land is owned by Ports of Auckland which is owned by the Council?

Too small I could understand, and you'd need to…

That might be acceptable for a…

But I have to take issue with the claim that Australians understand great public spaces: I mean, have you seen Sydney? Oh, that's right, you can't: there's too many…

matthewbuchanan: Privately owned and too small, according to Breakfast this morning.

This seems like a lame excuse to use for Carlaw Park. After all isn't the port area owned by the ports? And don't they need that land for running a port?

I'm all for Carlaw Park. It just makes…

I guess a stadium has certain design contraints that preclude a truly unique construction. Add time constraints into the mix and we get something 'ok' but not…

In the current politcal climate the current government could solve world hunger, stop all wars and abloish income tax and it some would still…

Anyone know why it's not even being considered?

Privately owned and too small, according to Breakfast this morning.

i'm all for the stadium if, as you say, it can be built on time (i don't believe it can, dunno why, just 'gut feel'), and if the public transport…