Field Theory: Testosterone and the running woman
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Actually, the general given figure for intersex people is about 1:1000-
these are birth abnormalities, and include hormonal & organ 'dysfunctions'. As someone who is somewhat anomalous on the human sexuality scale (I am an asexual), I find this whole converse fascinating-
the areas wherein sports women outdo sports men (or sportsothers) are areas where fatlayer or extreme dexterity rule-tho' shooting is another interesting area: one of my brothers is a hunter, reloader, *extremely* good shot -he orgfanised a team of womenshooters for a bunny kill and won-
the women I know who shoot are excellent shots. I count me & my mother among 'em.
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What I was anecdotally saying is - and what seems to be a fact WHEN
you take the male dominance out of shooting clubs et al -women can shoot than men. -
um, "better than men"
(This isnt actually controversial: it's been known for years among game hunters. It's like certain kinds of fishing: females do salmon fishing way better than males. Actually, I would say, females do ALL kinds of fishing better than males-)
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and (sobs quietly over lack of edit button) females do *most* kinds of fishing better because a lot of females dont treat it as a sport: those that do treat it as an eating matter have much better reactions (hooking) than a lot of males wanting to skite their fish-
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Islander
I'm amazed if it is true that women are better shots than men in general. Do you have some evidence? Some things about that just seem a bit unlikely - firstly men have generally better depth perception, secondly they are stronger, which goes to stability of the shooting platform, able to move a big gun more easily etc. But then again, the physical factors are possibly mostly quite minor, which would suggest there wouldn't be much difference at all.
Hayden
Just curious, what sports are these?
I dunno, actually. Certain gymnastic events seem the likely candidate, and a few other odd talents like being able to handle cold, or contort. I've never seen male gymnasts working the high beam or the uneven bar, but that could just be an oddity based on the historical chance of landing groin first on them. I was going to say things where being small helps, but of course there are still small men, and they still have the same advantages over women their size - jockeys for instance - the men are still 'stronger', which probably helps. My motivation for the aside that women can dominate some sports was really to suggest that women aren't inferior athletes in every way.
Dyan
You're actually bringing me round on this. I guess "it's unfortunate for hermaphrodites because they don't have anyone to compete with" is less of an evil than "it's unfortunate for women because hermaphrodites have a huge advantage". It seems pretty uncontroversial that they do.
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womenshooters
Islander
You just triggered my brain about Annie Oakley the first American woman to become an international superstar, I love the fact she was prepared to challenge male assumptions about women.
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"it's unfortunate for women because hermaphrodites have a huge advantage".
I ask again - if Semenya has this huge and insurmountable advantage that means she is ineligible to compete with women, how come her times are squarely in the middle of the range of the top female times for the past thirty years? She's very good; she's not breaking world records.
I also think that regardless of the technical terminology, it's actually pretty horrible to say she's not a woman. She self-identifies as a woman and clearly has believed herself to be fully biologically female all her life, although this may not be the case. Her biological sex may be up for debate, but her gender isn't.
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Islander - on fishing I think catch and release is just cruel when done as a sport. Although I must agree I'm not good at fishing, therefore, if I catch it I'll eat it (subject to size/season).
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Bring back the nude olympics, taking the technology out of shoes and clothes. Then scrape off the sweat and auction it off as an elixor to life. As they always did in the ancient games.
I think this is terribly sad that anybody let alone an 18yr old is subject to such personal critique.
Maybe we're taking sport far too seriously and putting far too much value in this level of competition?
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I ask again - if Semenya has this huge and insurmountable advantage that means she is ineligible to compete with women, how come her times are squarely in the middle of the range of the top female times for the past thirty years? She's very good; she's not breaking world records.
I can't find the graph that I saw a while ago (Hadyn might have linked to it?), but it showed how her results have improved drastically over the past year. Which isn't a surprise, given she's so young.
As a middle-distance runner, she'd peak at about 30 or so? So there's plenty of time ahead for people to fret over it, and for her to become a record-breaker.
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Men can't match women in some sporting events.
Just curious, what sports are these?
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I can't find the graph that I saw a while ago (Hadyn might have linked to it?), but it showed how her results have improved drastically over the past year.
This one? (part way down)
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Yeah that's the one. Given that she's taken 16 seconds off her PB in a year, that last two seconds to the world record probably isn't too unlikely in the next five years.
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Yeah that's the one. Given that she's taken 16 seconds off her PB in a year, that last two seconds to the world record probably isn't too unlikely in the next five years.
I hadn't seen that before, and it is interesting. Still don't think it's an issue until/unless that happens.
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I hadn't seen that before, and it is interesting. Still don't think it's an issue until/unless that happens.
Once it happens its too late. If people aren't allowed to compete in a particular competition, due to concerns about their gender, they should be told now, up front.
Otherwise you'll get silly suggestions like the one in the stuff story a few days ago which suggested that she would keep her gold, but that the silver would get promoted to a second gold, but that the bronze would stay in bronze. What the hell does that even mean?
If two years from now, she smashes the record, and then the athletics people invalidate it post-race, they'll look like muppets and a whole country is going to be pissed.
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