Envirologue: 1080, "eco-terrorism" and agendas
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Carol Stewart, in reply to
Most likely to me is still just a looney who either didn’t think about the likely reception and repurcussions
I don't know about that, seems to me that the intended consequences - ie to create a big scare about 1080 and get it into the headlines, see this weekend's DomPost - were calculated and intentional to a chilling degree. I don't know if I'm alone in finding the condemnations of the action from the anti-1080 lobby a little insincere, or that they are that uncomfortable with its polarising nature.
It's a shame that this incident has ramped up the hysteria around the use of 1080 even further. In fact the EPA risk assessment suggested that the public health hazard would be higher if 1080 was not used:The acute health hazard to the public from cyanide baits is substantially higher than for 1080 baits due to the higher toxicity level and the speed of action of the poison.
Oh, and great post Dave, you really nailed it.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
“Hager was only telling us stuff that we already know obviously goes on”, etc.
In Chchch we call that passive acceptance: Martin van Beynenism
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
In Chchch we call that passive acceptance: Martin van Beynenism
As a commenter on that old curtain-twitcher Van Beynen's column noted a while back, if the Dirty Politics revelations had landed in his lap instead of Hager's they'd have been swiftly passed on to the potentially embarassed, with the public happily kept in the dark.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
It's who they always vote for, and it's justified by declaring that everyone's at least as bad.
That is the bit I don't get, why bother voting? It must be a case of "They are all bad but the others are worse"
Up here in Northland I suspect National are saying "We could put up a lazy weight lifting bloke who looks like a pumpkin and still win" It could be worse, we could still have Mike (the [redacted]) Sabin. -
izogi, in reply to
Hi Steve. I can’t speak for them, but I believe they still agreed with National policy, or whatever it is they perceive National policy as being. The whole “all politicians are idiots and this total bastard level of undeground crap goes on everywhere all the time anyway” attitude was more about all of the stuff documented in Dirty Politics on how National and its friends have recently been conducting themselves. They’d to the thing of pointing at Dotcom and Hager and say “look, they’re sabotaging stuff too”, and so it’s all the same.
I don’t agree with them, and I think it’s just something many people tell themselves so they feel less bad about voting someone in. But I also don’t really care about arguing politics with the inlaws. I’d rather sit quietly and get on with them. :)
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Sacha, in reply to
No matter how much this may hurt the already struggling dairy farmers, National is prepared to do anything to win in Northland.
The scale of this 1080 scare seems an unlikely fit though - could cause real harm to the income of their voters and our reputation with those all-important international finaniciers and ratings agencies. Bet Nats would rather use bait like beneficiaries and bridges than this.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
You seem to underestimate National's desperation. They are hoping the scare will drop the dollar enough to make the farmgate price go up just enough to keep the wolf from the door. It matters little that this will increase our national debt to 70 billion because debt is good, right?.
Winnie, most definitely, has my tick. -
Our national debt, if piled up in $1 bills would reach a height of 7,117 km.
But by the time Winston wins it will be really really tall. As tall as a John Key story. -
Pretty sure our debt topped NZ$100b recently, before exchange rates brought it back a few bills. Is your graphic in US$ ?
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Fade to grey - pt II
Oh My God Steve's corrupted posts are replicating faster than Tribbles!
Before we know it the internet will be swamped,
the modern world will grind to a halt,
as the upload implodes...
;- ) -
Grrrrrrrrrr....
Won't take a 56kb jpeg?
I am not beaten.....
Have a link to the Debt Clock instead.
;-( -
Let try now the server is back up. ;-)
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Grrrrrrrrrr….
Won’t take a 56kb jpegIt breaks down at the same scan/line point in the graphic, hmmm
Just wondering if the server doesn't like the extra full stops in the file name?
Try renaming it with no stops other than before the 'JPG'... -
Really can't figure this
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Ian wins. It appears all those dots confused the poor server. wooops
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Ian wins.
My serve(r)?
;- ) -
This is the second time I have broken PAS
The last time I managed to set the entire site to ITALICS
Can't remember how now, just as well I suppose. ;-) -
I hadn't seen this 'till today...
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like the bit of wood next to a nail. -
But then... Its not about the nail...
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Paul Campbell, in reply to
Really can’t figure this
neither can I - dollar bills?
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Does NZ have "a growth problem, not a debt problem", or is NZ "borrowing $300m a week"? I suspect it depends on which audience is being dog-whistled to.
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Debt clocks are silly. Sovereignty and stuff, so long as the cost of rolling it over is less than the cost of ignoring it, we'll keep rolling it over without ever paying any of it back. Unless inflation gets up, as we can control inflation by having the state pay down debt.
It's pretty convenient to have a great deal of debt at that point. Labour nearly ran out, the next step is buying up great loads of other country's debt, like poor Japan's had to do for decades, and China. Got to get rid of the surplus somehow, before it destroys your economy.
Though we could just run higher inflation than our trading partners. That's also rather destructive to various things, and at the end of it you don't even have a bunch of other country's bonds. Not that they're worth anything, but neither is a devalued currency.
The real question about National's borrowing, is what it does to the exchange rates. Which depends on how much of those accompanying tax cuts shift overseas, and how much that in turn slows the economy vis-a-vis the type of spending cycles that would arise from different tax and benefit structures. Which is probably at the point where a professional would note "it's a bit more complicated than that" and suggest I spend a few years studying macro to pick up the basics. 8] -
eco echoes...
I think that the 'eco'* in this particular
'act of eco-terrorism'
is 'economic' not ecological...Putting all our 'eco's in the one dairy basket
may be a little short sighted!<aside> Gawd forbid that John Key (with his Min of Tourism hat on) ever has to verbally promote eco-tourism, serious confusion could ensue...
*then again, it could always be the Eco-terrorism of Umberto's hyperreality...
Hyperreality is seen as a condition in which what is real and what is fiction are seamlessly blended together so that there is no clear distinction between where one ends and the other begins.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
Which depends on how much of those accompanying tax cuts shift overseas
Not just those tax cuts but all imports, overseas investors repatriating profits, re-insurance. All those things effectively mean borrowing to support "Unsustainable Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" maybe there's a TV show in that.
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lobby groups keep rolling Trojan horses up to the doors of the newspapers, ramshackle constructions of tin foil and tape dressed to look like science, but packed tight inside with self-interest and agendas.
Just wanted to compliment you on this phrase and notify you that I fully intend to steal it.
So many issues where this phrase is totally appropriate. Which wouldn't really matter except in many cases these lobby groups cause real harm. In this case it's in the fight to protect our native (stupid ground dwelling) birds from introduced mammals.
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