Posts by Yamis
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I keep going in circles and coming back to my original idea.
Have two questions. One on 'skin colour', where I will happily tick "Scottish to the bone", and one on what I most feel like. A Big Mac Combo.
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I stand corrected and I most likely was drunk as I suggested. What month was that again? March? yep, probably watching the Sopranos on dvd and halfway through my 4th rum and coke.
I wonder though that if they chucked "New Zealander" as a category you could actually tick that the numbers of people choosing that option wouldn't shoot through the roof.
Out of sight out of mind for many.
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Playing with numbers...
In 2001 there were 2,696,727 who ticked New Zealand European.
In 2006 there were 2,381,076 who ticked New Zealand European.
The difference is 315,651.
429,429 chose "New Zealander".
Obviously there has been some natural increase in the number of New Zealand Europeans which would account for a decent chunk of the difference between the 315,651 figure and the 429,429 figure. We won't be able to work out out though ;)
The next census will be more revealing if they stick with the same format.
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and as tze ming mentions, there is no box for 'new zealander'. people had to actually write it on the form.
Are you sure? Maybe I was incredibly drunk when I filled it out but I don't remember writing it. That's a lot of writing for 400,000+ people to do. I thought all the hoohah about people writing New Zealander for years finally wore them down into having it as a distinct box you could tick.
I stand to be corrected though as I can't find a census form snapshot.
On the point of who you are trying to cricitise, well I understand that and am only too aware that many of my "New Zealand" colleagues would be the sort of folk I would cross the street to avoid but allow me the opportunity to co-opt their language and turn it into something more warm and fuzzy.
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Although it is not a Continent in the generally accepted meaning we are actually part of Oceania.
So..... next census I will consider calling myself an Oceanian.You must swim like a fish.
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I wonder how many other countries in a similar 'situation' to New Zealand have asked the population if they are a "New Zealander", "Brazilian", "American" or whatever. I've been trying to find what the options in the US are and it seems there is no such option. They break "Asian" down into 6 options and do the same for other broad categories. You can also choose "Black" or "White". Where's Michael Jackson at the moment?
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I really have a hard time concluding that I am racist or that it is racist to put "New Zealander" on my census form because I am white. That seems to be the barely veiled accusation. Maybe they should put in brackets after it (only white people may tick this box).
If a Chilean wants to put "New Zealander" then they can put it, if anybody from anywhere wants to put it then they can put it. Whether they are less likely to or unlikely to doesn't make a flying expletive of difference to me or the argument. I am sure somewhere in a house not far from any of us that there were non New Zealand Europeans ticking the "New Zealander" box.
I find it an extremely negative view that only white New Zealanders consider themselves to be "New Zealanders", insulting even. Well over 400,000 people ticked that box. I sure as hell did not tick it because I am white, and when my half Korean daughter gets to fill out a census form on her own behalf I hope she will happily tick the same box without worrying about what she looks like. If I take her to Europe she won't be accepted as a European, if I take her to Korea in it's current state she won't be considered Korean either. And I'm dammed if she has to sit down every 5 years to state that she is a Korean, European New Zealander just to make other people happy.
We might not need a melting pot for the worlds different ethnic groups but we could do with one for peoples identities if they so choose.
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Carlaw Park would hinge on accessibility obviously but could potentially work if the developers are very clever.
A rail station at the back of the existing wooden stand could provide a nice entry point to that stand or around the entire venue if they had a concourse? or whatever the hell wrap around walkways are called. It would be easy enough to come from the Newmarket direction or from the other line so both would feed into it just as nicely as Britomart would for a waterfront stadium. Only at Carlaw people would literally be feeding into the ground.
The motorways all converge (or potentially converge if you take the right off ramps) at that spot as well. The hard part would be getting people off the motorways and into car parks. A bit of match day light phasing could sort most of that out. They might have to look at underground car parking. Most of the WC venues I went to in Korea had parking under the ground itself and a lesser amount nearby above ground.
A travelator underground from the city would probably be as much of an attraction as the actual event itself.
I'm so anti Eden Park that I would probably support the demolition of several orphanges for a new stadium at the moment.
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Prior to the last census, I did not understand the difference between citizenship and ethnicity. I was one of those people who wondered why it was suggested that I call myself a "European" when I'd never been to Europe, and since my passport said I was a New Zealander, didn't that make me a New Zealander?
But then I started thinking about things. If there was a descendant of a, say, Chinese immigrant who'd come to New Zealand for the Otago goldrush (and let's assume that her whanau all married other Chinese New Zealanders), it would seem very obvious to me that even though she might be a third or forth generation New Zealander, that her ethnicity was still Asian.
And the same goes for me. I may be a fifth generation New Zealander, but my ancestors still came from Britain and Ireland, so therefore, I am ethnically European.
I agree with all that. But to throw a spanner in the works though if I may. My daughter is half korean, half European (or at least I hope she is or my wife has some explaining to do).
So what does she check in the box?
What about the those who are a combo, who are part African, part Chinese, part Scottish?, or 3 quarters Chinese and 1 quarter German...? etc etc
They tend to get told to pick whichever one they feel most strongly (or maybe two if it's your lucky day), but that contradicts the whole thing. Because if you are suddenly being asked to choose your ethnicity then I think it opens the way for you to choose "New Zealander" with Gay Abandon (assuming she was born here or migrated with her husband Roger Abandon a very long time ago).
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Heather, I'm not sure if people are saying they feel no connection to their European ancestry, just that they feel more "New Zealand" than a vague term like "European". I can only really speak for myself though.
I have a fair knowledge of my ancestry back several generations thanks to my father compiling the family tree from hell (historians are a strange lot). In 2001 we even managed to find the exact houses where my great great grand parents lived in Glasgow where they worked in the docks building ruddy great ships. We also stayed with distant relatives in the Lakes District and located other spots where rellies lived.
All that is wonderful and I am proud of my ancestry and where I have come from. But I still remember that they all upped and left to travel in leaky boats for months around the world to a place they new nothing about to get away from the flammin place and to start a new life.
Anyway, regarding this Heather:
I can't really think of any non-white race for whom a significant percentage wish to abandon their heritage, at least not without good reason.
An example that sprang to mind when I read the quote above: My wife is Korean and she has cousins, uncles, aunts etc living in California. So she has a bit of a handle on issues facing Koreans in the US. According to her there is quite a firm divide there amongst Koreans who have recently gone to live in the US and those who have been there for a generation or more. There is quite a lot of hostility between them and my wife has even used the word "hate" to describe the two groups feelings towards one another. Many young Koreans in the US who are 2nd generation cannot speak Korean and really have no real idea about Korean society, culture, lifestyle etc. They don't feel Korean. I'm not qualified enough to talk any more on that issue but it's a rough fit to the argument.
One of the obvious reasons why it's more of a 'white' thing to say you are a NZer is that Europeans have come to NZ a fair while ago now. Other 'ethnic groups' have arrived in more recent times ie. 1950s onwards with many only arriving in the last 2 decades. In 100 years time when we have had several generations of Pacific Islanders, Asians, Africans... born in NZ and our population makeup is massively different ie. white NZers makeup much less than 50% of the population and other groups make up a higher percentage then I expect a NZer will simply be considered anybody who was born in NZ or who has been here long enough to think of themself as one.
Whether you consider yourself to be part of a 'new country' depends largely on how welcome the 'occupants' make you feel. Having spent 4 years in Korea it is something that was constantly on my mind. I used to wonder how long I would have to live there until I would feel as Korean as I feel a New Zealander. I speak a bit of Korean, I love Korean food, I cheered for them like a nutter during 2002 WC, I supported my two local professional sports teams hardout, I have Korean friends, Koreans were very friendly towards me and welcoming. All that adds up and after a while you start to even become more like those around you. But in the eys of a Korean I don't think I would ever be considered Korean simply because 99% of the population are ethnic Koreans so it would be too hard for them to overcome unless I won a gold medal for them at the Olympics or was the Superbowl MVP (check that guy out).
But the situation is a bit different in NZ. And give it 20 years and it might be a whole heap different.
If you read to here then you probably need a panadol and a lie down.