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Speaker: Quantum Competition

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  • Russell Brown,

    Oh, it gets worse ...

    McAlister had another disagreement with young English referee Wayne Barnes in the dying minutes when he unsuccessfully attempted a dropped goal from nearly 50m out.

    He said this wasn't the panicked action that some might believe.

    "We had the advantage, the ref had his arm out so I just thought I would have a stab at it, thinking that we would come back for the advantage. But obviously he thought the advantage was over."

    Arrgggh ....

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    Look at this from the ABC website:

    "Prominent New Zealand radio commentator Murray Deaker described the result as nothing short of a national disaster.

    "Sadly we are a dumb rugby nation, we don't play the big matches well," he said.

    "We play them in a boofhead way. We were a bunch of boofheads playing out there tonight against a French side that isn't that good. On the big occasions we choke.""

    It is this kind of thing that gets my goat - "a national disaster" - talk about putting things in the right perspective.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Oh the irony!

    Paul: In a slightly different context, you bet your arse I was gutted like a freshly caught fish when my 'side' lost the last election. Didn't mean I couldn't accept Labour just got more fucking votes in a free, fair and properly run election - and was far from impressed by the lung-busting post match hysterics from the usual suspects. I actually don't think you throw around allegations of electoral fraud and corruption lightly.

    And when I've seen ten year olds handle lose a football match with considerably more maturity and grace than I've seen from their alleged elders and betters today, I respectfully suggest the 'irony' is not mine.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    oh an another thing - am I right in saying that there was more support in the Millennium Stadium for the French? There was audible support for the All Blacks but neutrals seemed to favour France. Is that a fair assessment? It would be good to hear from someone who was actually there.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • JP Hansen,

    Russell, have you re-watched the footage of the end of the match to see how long the ref had his arm out for during that period of advantage?

    Waitakere • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    It is this kind of thing that gets my goat - "a national disaster" - talk about putting things in the right perspective.

    Perhaps Muzza needs to pay a visit to the Christchurch Library's kid's education site on New Zealand disasters. He might learn that national disasters tend to involve death.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    Nice one Robyn. If one were to believe Deaker, since 1987 we have had as many national disasters as Indonesia and strangely they seem to happen in four year cycles.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    He might learn that national disasters tend to involve death.

    As opposed to wounded egos, which heal rather quickly when you stop picking at the scabs.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And when I've seen ten year olds handle lose a football match with considerably more maturity and grace than I've seen from their alleged elders and betters today, I respectfully suggest the 'irony' is not mine.

    Which is excellent stuff in theory, especially if you didn't watch or care about the game.

    But having reviewed the key incidents, I have gone from being philosophical to feeling that our chaps were unusually unlucky with the referee, to the extent that I think it is reasonable to say that the inexperienced referee's performance had a direct impact on the result.

    I would note that I have had no such complaints in previous years where the All Blacks have dipped out of the World Cup. Although David Kirk blathered like this in 2003:

    Take your pick of modern "isms" - populism, socialism, me too-ism, not fair-ism, free ride-ism - they all add up to mediocrity.

    What a dick. It's just a game. But right now, one in which I feel just a bit robbed.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Oh, and let's be fair - if the unthinkable happens, and Lloyd Jones doesn't win the Booker, you have an open invitation to kick my arse if the words 'national disaster', 'a nation mourns' or speculation that the jury can't actually read passes my keyboard. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Russell, have you re-watched the footage of the end of the match to see how long the ref had his arm out for during that period of advantage?

    No, I didn't PVR it. What happened?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Paul: In a slightly different context, you bet your arse I was gutted like a freshly caught fish when my 'side' lost the last election. Didn't mean I couldn't accept Labour just got more fucking votes in a free, fair and properly run election - and was far from impressed by the lung-busting post match hysterics from the usual suspects. I actually don't think you throw around allegations of electoral fraud and corruption lightly.

    Craig, I don't know to what you're referring. Almost all of the comment I've seen here is pretty understandable disappointment. We are still talking about the rugby aren't we? WTF has the last election got to do with it?

    And when I've seen ten year olds handle lose a football match with considerably more maturity and grace than I've seen from their alleged elders and betters today, I respectfully suggest the 'irony' is not mine.

    Is it McCaw, McAlister, Carter or Henry you think have thrown this hysterical wobbly? I think you're jumping at shadows.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    Another pet hate of mine - the sports media's habit of using 'passion' (technically a noun) as a verb as in "out-passioned". Check out the Stuff website.

    The picture of Richie McCaw at the media conference is heart rending. Poor guy. He's given the game and the public as much as he's got to give and it wasn't enough today.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Which is excellent stuff in theory, especially if you didn't watch or care about the game.

    Now, Russell - I don't particularly "care about the game", and am perfectly well aware that lots of people do. But I'd respectfully suggest that nobody thinks basic good sportsmanship is a matter of 'theory' when a ref being assaulted by an unhinged spectator-parent, or some game degenerating into a brawl hits the papers. Nor do I think it's anything to sniff at when clubs and rugby as a whole actually decide they're not going to tolerate 'thug-by' bullshit either on or off the field.

    Now, I don't want to over-extend that, because we (mercifully) don't have the kind of hooligan culture that making British football fans about as welcome in Europe as shaved ham in a kosher deli. But I really do have to agree with some of the commentators above: The hysterical military analogies and sooking from the likes of Murray Deaker would be funny if it wasn't so damn creepy.

    Enthusiasm is a very good thing, but like most virtues, it can turn into a vice pretty quickly.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    Oh so not cool. We got this on the Dropkicks:

    lolz, totally deserved
    Learn to be less cocky even if rugby is the only thing your nation has

    And who bothered to quote Deaker? I'm surprised he didn't blame the Lesbian Cabal.

    Oh and Russell, dont watch the replay, all you'll see is more reffing blunders (offsides et al) and the All Blacks not playing at top pace.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    WTF has the last election got to do with it?

    I take my politics as seriously as some people take rugby and put an enormous amount of time and effort into campaigning last time around. Really awful 'losing' by a little over two points, but sadly that's the way it turned out and just got over it. Some folks didn't, but must admit anyone who puts the words 'stolen' and 'election' next to each other lose my attention.

    I think you're jumping at shadows.

    And I think denial is a truly awesome thing.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Russell, have you re-watched the footage of the end of the match to see how long the ref had his arm out for during that period of advantage?

    Caught that part now. He was actually signalling for a knock-on advantage, so perhaps his waving play on then wasn't so bad, even if on another day they night have had a scrum in front on the 22 ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Now, Russell - I don't particularly "care about the game", and am perfectly well aware that lots of people do. But I'd respectfully suggest that nobody thinks basic good sportsmanship is a matter of 'theory' when a ref being assaulted by an unhinged spectator-parent, or some game degenerating into a brawl hits the papers. Nor do I think it's anything to sniff at when clubs and rugby as a whole actually decide they're not going to tolerate 'thug-by' bullshit either on or off the field.

    Craig, at the risk of incurring a telling off, what has your comment above got to do with the game this morning? Why do you object to others' disappointment?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I'm surprised he didn't blame the Lesbian Cabal.

    Hayden: Dykeocracy Central have found out that softball, horse riding and women's golf are much more successful at 'recruiting' normal girls into the lesbotic lifestyle. Murray really need to keep his copy of the homosexual agenda up to date.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    By and large the comments from people here and elsewhere are reasonable.

    There are quite a few smiling bystanders who are enjoying putting the boot in though for some reason making random things up.

    The ref cost us the game which is fairly obvious. It's not a crime to point such things out. We still could have won it anyway despite all that and so in the wash up the ref, the mistakes, the substitutions and the game plan will all get mentioned and all be worth mentioning as they all added up to what we got.

    We did manage to play against a team who did not commit an infringement for the last 51 minutes of the match would could well be a record at this tournament though and thats some feat!

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    I take my politics as seriously as some people take rugby and put an enormous amount of time and effort into campaigning last time around. Really awful 'losing' by a little over two points, but sadly that's the way it turned out and just got over it. Some folks didn't, but must admit anyone who puts the words 'stolen' and 'election' next to each other lose my attention.

    Bugger, you'd already told me off!

    Hey, I take my politics seriously too - I don't always agree with your argument but you often make reasonable points - but this discussion didn't appear to be about politics? It was about rugby.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • JP Hansen,

    We did manage to play against a team who did not commit an infringement for the last 51 minutes of the match

    Well, there's a subtle difference between not committing an infringement and not being <i>caught</i> committing an infringement. ;-)

    Waitakere • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Hey, I take my politics seriously too - I don't always agree with your argument but you often make reasonable points - but this discussion didn't appear to be about politics? It was about rugby.

    Yeah, I wasn't summoning any higher principles either. It was just a game of rugby, albeit a rather important one. It's happened before: Paddy O'Brien put Fiji out of the 1999 tournament with a woeful display (for which he was good enough to express great regret when it was eventually politic to do so). But I wouldn't be human if I didn't feel extremely frustrated by it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • JP Hansen,

    On the plus side, my son turns 5 in a fortnight, and he's asked for All Blacks stuff for his birthday. Dare say the sale will be on at the Warehouse from tomorrow...

    Waitakere • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    I think I can see where Craig is coming from (for once) - for those of us not interested in the game the world cup was mostly just an irritating, alienating experience: the saturation level marketing dressed up as nationalism, the irritating conversations with random strangers asking you if you saw the game last night and if not why the fuck not mate, the way the media loses interest in covering any news stories for a good couple of weeks and devotes their energies to an in depth analysis of what color clothes a sports team is going to wear - all of this is just deeply tedious for those of us not invested in the sport, so there's always going to be a certain level of glee from us when the whole thing collapses so spectacularly.

    Although I certainly faked a deep sense of sorrow at the changing rooms in the gym this morning - even I'm not that stupid.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

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