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Speaker: Compulsory voting and election turnout

141 Responses

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  • Moz, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    That's not the case with a person who has a job for the UN. They have leave and options to return home that soldiers might not have.

    OK, we're not going to agree on this. Soldiers "might not have" options, but UN workers can always... ignore the quarantine in Nigeria and whip back to NZ for a quick visit so they maintain their ability to vote. Any safety or cost issues are irrelevant next to the need to make sure only the right people get to vote.

    Universal suffrage. That's what I want.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1229 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Moz: "Can I start by saying..." No.

    Nice context removal, Chris. Way to completely change the argument I was making. I'm impressed at your bad faith and dishonesty.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1229 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson, in reply to Moz,

    I guess that's the danger of argument-by-absurdity. You may be taken literally - some people really do have absurd arguments at times.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 615 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Universal suffrage. That’s what I want.

    Which is fine. But the military exemption is there for a reason. It wouldn't be necessary if everyone who ever lived in NZ as a citizen or PR could vote forever, but that's not the current law so that's why there's a military exemption - soldiers get sent by the government overseas for war and don't get to come back like other people do.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Steve Parks,

    Where do we draw the line in terms of voting age? Can’t we just be pragmatic about this too?

    I’d go with 16, because it’s the minimum school leaving, driving license, marriage age among other things.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison,

    16 , school citizens. It would be an interesting poll on education policy. Real time voters on education.

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison,

    I would love to see John Key, pre- celebrity relieve a year 10 classroom. One year off 16, stroppy as hell in their uncomfortable hurds of 25- 30. Classrooms sizes are too big for many key learning years, years 9-11 especially.

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to BenWilson,

    people struggle to even conceive of how taxing capital gains could be fair, with theoretical arguments everywhere, completely ignoring that the system is commonplace around the developed world.

    Not that I’ve seen much of that, but I’ve looked at enough of the examination of CGT’s and the numerous possible arguments, implementations and options:

    A threshold under which capital gain on a principal residence is not taxed. For example, the United States exempts the first $250,000 of gain on the sale of a principal residence from tax. This excludes almost all home sales from the tax, but some tax still applies if the gain is very significant.

    …to strongly question whether this classification of CGT as a non-negotiable singular system may in fact contribute to peoples’ fear, when the two leading proponents of CGT in New Zealand are presenting only superficially similar CGTs and the media has largely only focused on one of these.

    Deeply questioning whether either Labour’s or Green’s proposed CGTs are yet refined to be the best fits in order to maximise all desired outcomes for New Zealand, whether they could even coalesce, and whether either one or another or neither is fair or unfair is a far more nuanced, impacting and multi-polarising topic than a binary and a purely theoretical debate as to whether not not-voting is a democratic right.

    People are brainwashed as you say Ben, but one of the most disagreeable symptoms of this is that this brainwashing for the most part encompasses the idea that Labour’s CGT is THE CGT and therefore that to classify Labour’s proposed CGT as unfair is easily misconstrued as discrediting all CGTs as being unfair.

    As for the right to vote and the topic at hand, I was overjoyed to learn I was eligible to vote, I enrolled (with no witness required) well ahead of time with no formal ID required, but my papers never arrived as is too often the case with snail mail in China. When I went to download my papers directly on the day before the election I found that in order to submit my vote, I needed a witness:

    The following people are able to witness your declaration:

    Relative, or member of the household, or business colleague or associate, of the special voter (this person does not have to be a New Zealand citizen or permanent resident); or
    Registered New Zealand elector; or
    Person approved by the Returning Officer; or
    A commonwealth representative such as an:
    Ambassador
    High Commissioner
    Minister
    Charge d’Affaires
    Consular Officer
    Trade Commissioner, or
    Tourist Commissioner of a Commonwealth country; or
    Person authorised to take a statutory declaration such as
    Justices of the Peace
    barristers and solicitors
    Registrars and Deputy Registrars of the Supreme Court, Court of Appeal, High Court and District Courts
    Commissioner of Oaths; or
    Notary Public; or
    Person authorised to administer an oath for the purpose of a judicial proceeding in the country in which the declaration is made.

    My wife had suddenly had to go up north for her Grandfather’s death, I had fuck all money, no business colleague, no other member of my household. So couldn’t vote. I guess I expected a passport scan would have been sufficient. My point being, I am happy to support compulsory voting but please ensure that it's reasonably doable and go easy on the penalties.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison, in reply to mark taslov,

    When a market goes so out of control, there will be corrective action the other way that is not particularly subtle. Death taxes from Mickey Savage stopped many aspiring family businesses in their tracks. It was done to correct a huge sore of an inbalance in five quick years.

    Housing drains our economy of too much of the wage that helps fuel capitalism. It’s a drain on our spending power and is non-productive. Asset owning is a core testament of Capitalism, the family plot being the cornerstone of the harmony factor.

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Jack Harrison,

    Thanks Jack I certainly feel there’s so much more public discussion to be had around the specifics and models which New Zealand could adapt. Possibly not in this thread, perhaps Keith’s thread needs to live again.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson, in reply to mark taslov,

    My wife had suddenly had to go up north for her Grandfather’s death, I had fuck all money, no business colleague, no other member of my household. So couldn’t vote.

    Justice of the Peace is on the list. There are a couple in every suburb, all listed in the phone book, all only too happy to help.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 615 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Brent Jackson,

    Sorry Brent, I should have been clear, I live in Shenzhen China, on the furthest outskirts of a city I’m not familiar with, there are no phone books. If it had looked reasonably probable that I could have succeeded at little or no cost in that time frame I would have made the effort. I was gutted.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson, in reply to mark taslov,

    Ah yes, that makes it much trickier. I guess

    Person authorised to administer an oath for the purpose of a judicial proceeding in the country in which the declaration is made.

    would be your only hope. In New Zealand, I think desk sergeants at Police Stations fit this description.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 615 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Brent Jackson,

    desk sergeants at Police Stations fit this description.

    Yeah, in a western country it would have been a shoe in, here ‘desk sergent’ is not one but many different jobs, ‘police station’ may be part of a few different departments.
    Realistically, given a couple of weeks and a few misfires, a certified translation of the documents and perhaps calling in a favour, you might find the right person who could and would do that.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Brent Jackson,

    Which does make me wonder a little about the process, in that I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it were my enrollment application being witnessed than who I'm voting for.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Attachment

    Just received! You better start packing those bags J.P. (Japy?)

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

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