Island Life: Let’s learn English, with John Key.
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"And I'm quite serious -- I wonder how many people who casually use 'neo-con' as a sneer really have any concept of what it means."
sure, I wouldn't like being associated to them.
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"Well, I used to be rather fond of poo-wording the evil Liarbore dykeocracy as "Stalinist""
Well that was an extreme association.
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Prebble's radical right wing beliefs and actions would seem to be a local equivalent to the US movement that bears the name, despite any subtle differences in motivation or ideas.
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. . . get a clue about what Stalin actually did . . .
Like, faced with the reality of all that blood, snot and offal on the permafrost, your dreams of a private gulag for your political enemies evaporated, along with your case of Stalin-envy? Good on you.
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More news on Gate-crash-gate - and I'm claiming that one, all you thieving journos who read Public Address ;)
NZPA reports:
Wellington City Council has given the National Party surveillance camera footage which might help it identify the infiltrator who secretly taped conversations with MPs at a cocktail party last Friday night.
There were no cameras inside the room where the party was held but there was cover of a staircase leading to it, council spokesman Richard MacLean told NZPA.
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The MPs are furious about the covert recordings and had hoped security cameras would show the conversations taking place.
Those hopes were dashed when they were told last night there was no cover of the party, but now they have tapes which might reveal who went into it.
"The reality is the footage isn't that great," a spokesman for party leader John Key said.
"You're talking hundreds of people and it will be a case of us working our way through it quietly and methodically, looking for people we know and people we don't.
"Whether we come up with something is anyone's guess. It's not going to be a quick process."
The conference was held in the Town Hall and the cocktail party in the adjacent Michael Fowler Centre.
The council was at first reluctant to hand the tapes over, saying it usually only gave them to the police.
But its legal advice was that as National had hired the venue for the party, it had the right to control access to it and could have the tapes.
I wonder how many party workers will be giving up their weekends for this? Wouldn't it be easier to introduce Duncan Garner to water-boarding?
And what about that poor couple who were getting it on in the stairwell ...
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I wonder how many party workers will be giving up their weekends for this? Wouldn't it be easier to introduce Duncan Garner to water-boarding?
I have a horrible feeling he'd enjoy it too much. :)
Like, faced with the reality of all that blood, snot and offal on the permafrost, your dreams of a private gulag for your political enemies evaporated, along with your case of Stalin-envy? Good on you.
Well, the reality that whatever I think of Helen Clark it's a wee bit of a stretch to compare her with someone who engineered the death of millions. There might also be certain practical problems with converting Soames Island into a gulag.
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It is kinda weird.
As I understand it nothing illegal went on, so the National Party have been given the tapes to do what with? Put an image of a person out for the media to harass?
I'd' be much happier if the tapes had gone to the police. If nothing illegal had gone on, then I don't see why the person's identity should be revealed to anyone, including the National Party.
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As I understand it nothing illegal went on
As I understand it, something illegal debatably went on -- arguably trespass if he gained access under false pretences.
Put an image of a person out for the media to harass?
Oh, now you get squeamish. :) But, hey, if Debbie Does Dallas (since Deep Throat is already spoken for) really thinks he's done absolutely nothing illegal or unethical, he could e-mail Duncan Garner again with permission to disclose his identity. If he's got nothing to hide (i.e. he actually told Duncan Garner the truth about being "unaffiliated to any political party"), what should he be afraid of?
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I feel sorry for the guy, he's obviously a very fucking passionate citizen.
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Its kind of witchhunty
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His crime is asking a politician a political question.
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"Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?" is a quotation – sometimes misquoted with "on" in place of "upon" – from Alexander Pope's "Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot" of January 1735. The line has entered common use and has become associated with more recent figures.
It can be taken as referring to putting massive effort into achieving something minor or unimportant, -
His crime is asking a politician a political question.
Not at all, Jeremy. I think there's a clear cut ethical problem of covertly taping conversations without the knowledge or consent of the participants but whether that shades into a criminal offence is (granted) highly debatable.
But let's cash a reality check here -- as I said in this week's PAR piece, Debbie Does Dallas might well be a little creep. But this isn't the Watergate break in. But by the same measure, let's not turn him into some romantic Deep Throat either.
Its kind of witchhunty
Awww... and what do you call entering a private event under false pretences and covertly recording conversations? More Stasi than Salem, I grant you but my sympathies aren't excited.
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They were talking politics, bill wasn't outing himself. How innocent is that? Just talking politics. like me and you now. Is that a crime? Were Bills answers treasurable? What has he stolen?
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How old is this guy? Maybe he's quite young. He's not playing by the rules , he's pissed off by the rules , that's evident.
what does his crime involve ?
talking politics.
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Craig, it's sounding party line again. I admire Gordon Campbell's elaboration of the relative morality of secret taping compared with secret policy.
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People aren't all in love with our political system and i'd bet almost certainly those stats will be higher with generation why?
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how old was lange when he started being political?
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I wouldn't be surprised if the wanna-be 007 is from outside the usual political system, e.g., Indymedia.
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"I wouldn't be surprised if the wanna-be 007 is from outside the usual political system, e.g., Indymedia."
i hate the word indy, you're media or your not, independence..i'll read what you say to judge that.
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"Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?" is a quotation – sometimes misquoted with "on" in place of "upon" – from Alexander Pope's "Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot" of January 1735. The line has entered common use and has become associated with more recent figures.
Keep reading because the man whose nickname was 'The Wasp of Twickenham' didn't need a wheel. The gilded flick knife of his malicious wit was quite sufficient.
**Yet let me flap this bug with gilded wings,
This painted child of dirt that stinks and stings;
Whose buzz the witty and the fair annoys,
Yet wit ne'er tastes, and beauty ne'r enjoys,
So well-bred spaniels civilly delight
In mumbling of the game they dare not bite.
Eternal smiles his emptiness betray,
As shallow streams run dimpling all the way.
Whether in florid impotence he speaks,
And, as the prompter breathes, the puppet squeaks;
Or at the ear of Eve, familiar toad,
Half froth, half venom, spits himself abroad,
In puns, or politics, or tales, or lies,
Or spite, or smut, or rhymes, or blasphemies.
His wit all see-saw, between that and this ,
Now high, now low, now Master up, now Miss,
And he himself one vile antithesis.
Amphibious thing! that acting either part,
The trifling head, or the corrupted heart,
Fop at the toilet, flatt'rer at the board,
Now trips a lady, and now struts a lord.
Eve's tempter thus the rabbins have express'd,
A cherub's face, a reptile all the rest;
Beauty that shocks you, parts that none will trust,
Wit that can creep, and pride that licks the dust.**Did I mention Pope was a bit of a bitch?
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but agree, it's a good point.
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i can't read all that poetry craig, it would take me all day. I've got a record collection, it's faster.
I think Pope had it right on butterflies. -
Craig, it's sounding party line again. I admire Gordon Campbell's elaboration of the relative morality of secret taping compared with secret policy.
Frankly, Sasha, every tabloid scumbag can piously invoke 'the public interest' when it suits as well. I'm also getting a little tired of the equivalence being drawn with "Finance Minister Michael Cullen speaking in what he thought was a not-for-broadcast situation". Well, can I remind people that this was a press conference in his office. I think it's rather hard to argue that the camera was being concealed; and one might well point out that it's no more unfair to point out the Minister of Finance's belief that journalists were deliberately slanting coverage to serve their own financial self-interest than it was for Audrey Young to publish notes rebutting allegations by Key that she'd fabricated quotes.
And if Gordon allows subjects who've been, shall we say, excessively candid, to declare things 'off the record' retrospectively
he's the only journalist I've ever come across who does. I'm sure he's had people try. I certainly have, to the extent one gentleman claimed I'd recorded an interview without his knowledge. What a shame the first question I asked was, "Do you mind if I record this?" and he at no point indicated any answer was given on an off the record basis. Bugger. :)They were talking politics, bill wasn't outing himself. How innocent is that?
I occasionally catch up with Jordan Carter -- who is currently the Labour candidate in Hunua --, and we (unsurprisingly) "talk politics". He's never said anything terribly indicreet or broken any confidences (and as a former member of Labour's governing council he could serve up somebe very dishy indeed if he was that kind of person), but he doesn't mince his words either. I wouldn't blog or publish anything he's said, because it's dishonest. I certainly don't tape conversations on any subject with my friends. It might not be illegal, but it's dishonest and flat out creepy. That simple.
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Oh, and can I add Sasha if someone purporting to be a Young Labour member had covertly taped - and published - a conversation with Michael Cullen at a Labour Party conference cocktail party, where Cullen said, "Well, of course our tax cuts are bullshit. I told Cabinet we can't afford them, but I got steamrolled" I'd think he was wrong to do so. And I'd also say Cullen would have a legitimate beef with the taper, and any media outlet that published it.
And if that person was later revealed to be a Young Nat who had flat out lied to a journalist, who repeated that lie on air, I'd have very little sympathy if the little toe rag got burned.
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