Island Life: Good on ya, Paula
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With all due respect Graeme, aren't you a little tired of "After nine... long... years..." and "When Labour was in power..."? I mean, really how long is a year? Isn't it National who should be accountable for their own actions now?
Fair enough, Sophie -- after all, Labour's usual m.o. was to get people like Trevor Mallard or Winston Peters to slander their enemies under privilege which isn't the same thing at all. And a completely accountability-free zone.
Meanwhile, Labour sure seems stuck in the 90's isn't it?
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the most anti-women government we've seen in a while...
You forget canning any attempt whatsoever at pay equity.
Coming soon: A pay war with the teachers and nurses, both female dominated professions. They will be painted as selfish and/or lazy people sucking on the public teat when out there in recession land the battlers in struggle street are lucky to even have a nine day fortnight!
looking at the tenor and comms strategy of this government and some of the rightwing blogsphere comments, which are devoid of reason or fact but long on the politics of resentment and bitterness, I am beginning to wonder if we've underestimated the impact and influence of the Fox-Limbaugh U.S. right on our own right wing in this country. Hooten would slot right into Fox News.
While they were in opposition, it seems they spent most of their time get angrier and angrier watching & believing everything they saw on Fox News.
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While they were in opposition, it seems they spent most of their time get angrier and angrier watching & believing everything they saw on Fox News.
Oh, the irony...
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3410,
Labour's usual m.o. was to get people like Trevor Mallard or Winston Peters to slander their enemies under privilege which isn't the same thing at all.
What's your point? That breaking the law is okay if the behaviour is similar to something else that's not illegal?
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You could be onto something there, Tom. They've already come for the evening classes.
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What's your point? That breaking the law is okay if the behaviour is similar to something else that's not illegal?
That I find it rather bemusing that Sophie apparently thinks it's now somehow dirty pool to point out that previous government's have acted in a similar way. Oh, and my problem with pariamentary privilege is that people who've been slandered in Parliament (and had that slander reported in the media) have precisely ZERO recourse in law. Personally, I find that truly outrageous.
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Craig, a genuine request. As someone who freely places himself on the right of centre and (I believe?) a Party member, could you please provide your view of this specific incident? Understand you wish to draw analogies given the nature of politics, but would appreciate the honest view of someone more closely aligned with the National Party on specifically what happened here.
My voting record is a rainbow and I tend to loathe all rosettes equally, but I can't see how anyone can support this action beyond simple partisan loyalty?
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Hooten and others say that the women could instead get a Tax free Student loan $150 per week, or a Student Allowance $175 pw. But I don't think you can be on a Benefit and the above at the same time. I think that the above Loan and allowance is only available for full time students. If I have that right then to get the alternatives, they would lose about $500 pw and have to sell their kids to survive.
As I understand it, you are indeed correct. Hooton was just making shit up.
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Matthew Hooton just said on the radio that the women weren't "telling the truth" about their circumstances.
Motherfucker.
I haven't stopped being surprised that Hooton's taken seriously by anyone but how he got on National Radio is thoroughly perplexing. How's a fiercly partisan hack fit on any RNZ format?
By sanctioning this assault on the fundamental rights of beneficiaries, the veneer of Key's caring new face of National is removed.
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@ Jolisa and Tom...
and the polytechs are being loosened-up for something too
The unis can't be far behind!
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2. It's also been nice to hear balance from journalists. "Bennett did this, however, when Labour was in power their practice was to have ministerial staff leak the information instead of doing it openly." etc.
It would be useful to know of some actual cases in order to make a real comparison.
There appear to be two particular points here:
1. The women are guilty of concealing nothing. The fact that they were on benefits -- and trying to get off them -- was the entire point of the story.
2. The minister used her privileged ability to retrieve their personal information, and published it to "teach them a lesson".
I do think there are circumstances where additional information can decently be released, and perhaps the recent Burgess case was one. This just looks like bullying.
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It is pretty sad seeing erstwhile "liberal" National supporters like DPF and Craig here so quickly abandon there liberal credentials and become little more than lame apologists for Palinesque politics.
I think that since National appears to have adopted the comms strategy of the US Republican Party, they'll end up doing exactly what the GOP has done - become a party of anti-intellectual crazies that is wildly popular on NewsTalkZB but has completely alienated and disgusted anyone with the slightest liberal outlook or intelligence.
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"teach them a lesson".
I'm sorry, is that what she actually, verbatim said?
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My voting record is a rainbow and I tend to loathe all rosettes equally, but I can't see how anyone can support this action beyond simple partisan loyalty?
Well, if it's "partisan" to be slightly more interested in what Marie Shroff has to say (who was appointed to the Privacy Commission by the previous Government and before that spent sixteen years as Cabinet Secretary) rather than hardly disinterested parties like Charles Chauvel then guilty as charged.
Personally, I do think Bennett didn't have to go anywhere near as far as she did, and if she's found to have breeched the Privacy Act then I'd probably sack her. But pardon me if I find the Muldoon in drag analogies rather hard to take very seriously.
And when it comes to neo-Victorian paternalism, excuse me if I roll my eyes at solo mothers becoming a new class of Angels of the Hearth.
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2. It's also been nice to hear balance from journalists. "Bennett did this, however, when Labour was in power their practice was to have ministerial staff leak the information instead of doing it openly." etc..
I can't think of a single instance where a Labour or National Minister has leaked private information about someone to the media. They leak confidential information all the time, but not targeted at individuals.
What DOES happen is that press secs and Ministers confide to journalists off the record about specific cases in order to infuence their coverage, but they that's very different from explicitly leaking the information and having it made publically available.
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I haven't stopped being surprised that Hooton's taken seriously by anyone but how he got on National Radio is thoroughly perplexing. How's a fiercly partisan hack fit on any RNZ format?
Like Lila Haare or Chris Trotter aren't partisan?
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Thanks Craig
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excuse me if I roll my eyes at solo mothers becoming a new class of Angels of the Hearth
Hugely unlikely reach there, Craig.
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"teach them a lesson".
I'm sorry, is that what she actually, verbatim said?
I don't have time to go back through the Close Up interview right now, but I think so, yes.
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excuse me if I roll my eyes at solo mothers becoming a new class of Angels of the Hearth
Given - but please do accept my (in this case well informed) opinion that cutting the TIA was a bad thing.
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With all due respect Graeme, aren't you a little tired of "After nine... long... years..." and "When Labour was in power..."? I mean, really how long is a year? Isn't it National who should be accountable for their own actions now?
Which is exactly why I didn't use it like that. If the release was in breach of the Privacy Act - something I consider likely, if less clear than others seems to - then the fact that someone else did it as well, or did something worse, in no way excuses it.
The journalists were holding the minister to account. It was the lead story on both TV One and TV3. They spoke to the women and politicians across the House; and interviewed privacy experts and lawyers. And they also provided us with a context - not to judge the actions of the minister, but the actions of other politicians attacking her. It was good journalism. Hell, it was journalism.
As I noted, my remarks were peripheral. They go in no way to the heart of the issue. Consequences for Ms Bennett if she's found to have breached an individuals privacy? Perhaps. But wasn't it just nice to know? Would you have preferred not to have been advised of the practice under previous government?
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Jen,
I think if you squint hard enough at Paul Bennett you will see Keith.
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Jen,
I think if you squint hard enough at Paul Bennett you will see Keith.
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Danyl:
What DOES happen is that press secs and Ministers confide to journalists off the record about specific cases in order to infuence their coverage, but they that's very different from explicitly leaking the information and having it made publically available.
That's what I meant. Providing confidential information in confidence to a journalist is leaking.
And Russell:
It would be useful to know of some actual cases in order to make a real comparison.
Given that journalists may only know of the practice from personal experience (having been confided in with personal information relating to a particular story) it may be difficult to find good example they could use with their obligations of confidence.
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3410,
If, as claimed, Labour had done the same thing, but surreptitiously, then surely the individual involved would be asking strongly how their precise personal financial information came to be splashed all over the 'papers, given that it could only have come from either the ministry or the minister's office. I don't recall this happening.
I'm sorry, is that what she actually, verbatim said?
She said:
I certainly don't like to think that they feel intimidated. I suppose it's a bit of a lesson for what happens when you go out there and put your story and put what you, you know, perceive to be for everyone the full information that sometimes they do. - Bennett on Close Up
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