Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Tidbits ahoy

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  • Jackie Clark,

    I've got a solution - bit radical, although quite obvious considering how all the experts concur that a person's future behaviour and psyche is predicated and shaped by the time they are seven. How about compulsory early childhood education? I always find it very interesting that people nod their heads and say "mm, yes, birth to three, most important years........." and then that's it. A lot of head nodding, not much else, really.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • David Slack,

    When Mr. Slack is finished building his Quackspeak Detector-cum-Rhetorical-Inflation Engine, we could collaborate on a domestic political/blog version of Bullshit Bingo. Endure election season and win fabulous prizes!

    As a matter of fact I was working on the very thing at the moment you wrote that. Here, have some raw data:

    Most frequently used words: "young" and "youth" - 50-odd mentions each.

    Here are the residual words left in John Key's speech after the duckspeak engine is done with it. (Incidentally, the DuckSpeak engine won't be available for the next little while. I will have it up on the hoist.)
    I've also got a Tag Cloud here


    labour
    clark
    helen
    zealand
    economy
    global
    kiwi
    world
    aspire
    bigger
    country
    election
    everest
    falling
    greater
    kids
    kiwis
    nation
    rates
    voters
    wages
    wealth
    wind
    zealanders
    accomplish
    afford
    ages
    ago
    alarming
    australia
    base
    billions
    build
    buy
    carbon
    challenge
    claim
    climbed
    companies
    concentrated
    continue
    continuing
    cracks
    crime
    despite
    dollars
    earth
    ed
    edmund
    emerging
    emissions
    extra
    failed
    failing
    favourite
    feats
    finance
    foothill
    fought
    foundations
    fresh
    future
    gap
    gas
    giving
    goodbye
    government
    grateful
    greenhouse
    grocery
    grossly
    happy
    harder
    hardworking
    health
    heights
    highest
    hillary
    hoodwink
    house
    immune
    impacts
    importance
    improved
    improvement
    inadequate
    inflation
    inheritance
    inheriting
    innocent
    issues
    job
    leaving
    legacy
    less
    likelihood
    literacy
    lose
    lower
    matter
    matters
    minister
    momentum
    more
    mortgage
    mountain
    neutral
    new
    numeracy
    oecd
    opportunities
    paying
    person
    petrol
    poured
    prepared
    prices
    prime
    questions
    ranking
    rate
    remembered
    remind
    reminder
    retirement
    right
    rise
    rock
    rocketing
    roof
    sandwiched
    save
    savings
    second
    severe
    sick
    significant
    signs
    skills
    slowing
    soar
    solid
    son
    speech
    sports
    squandered
    still
    stronger
    survival
    tail
    team
    thousands
    tomorrow
    turning
    unable
    uncertainty
    under
    upwards
    violent
    wasted
    wealthiest
    winds
    wrong
    yourselves
    zealander

    Devonport • Since Nov 2006 • 599 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    hillary
    hoodwink

    Well, that's on the shortlist for my new drag name. I've come to the sad conclusion that one is far too nelly to pull off Mrs. T. :)

    And according to NatRadio, Clark's big new idea is... raising the school leaving age. But the details are, according to the reporter whose name I didn't catch, the details are all going to be worked out in a 'work pro gramme' with the Education Ministry as 'project leaders'.

    Thanks, NatRadio, for entries one and two in my Bullshit Bingo database. Any further suggestions eagerly received, and a virtual chocolate fish to the folks who guess the gems I extracted from Mr. Key's effort yesterday. (Though serious demerits to Key for not making an effort. The merely banal and blandly inoffensive doesn't make the cut. You've got to go for the utterly meaningless verbiage.) Let's hope the Prime Minister raises the bar!

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Raising the school leaving age has been on Labour's shelf for ages. Mallard/Maharey toyed with the idea of an education leaving age quite early in their terms. It's worth noting that almost every new initiative in education and training since the '80s has had retention as a goal but some have been very poorly designed. I think Key's falls into this category not least of all because the training is not likely to lead anywhere i.e. a qualification.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Clarke,

    I thought Key's performance was exceptionally ordinary. Let's see ... we have our #2 trading partner heading for the biggest recession in a generation, oil prices climbed 50% last year, our currency is gaining strength and pressuring exporters, food prices are on the rise, climate change is happening all around us, and interest rates are the highest they've been in years. Against this background, Key spends all his time talking about ..... taggers?!

    That wasn't the State of the Nation speech, it was the State of Manurewa speech. He should have been standing for Sir Barry Curtis's old job, not Helen Clark's.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 85 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Christchurch tops it:

    A 50-year-old man charged with the murder of a teenage tagger in Manukau should be allowed to "get away with it", Christchurch City councillor Barry Corbett says.

    Lovely.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    That wasn't the State of the Nation speech, it was the State of Manurewa speech. He should have been standing for Sir Barry Curtis's old job, not Helen Clark's.

    Perhaps that's what is meant by a "small target" approach?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Against this background, Key spends all his time talking about ..... taggers?!

    No he didn't, and with all due respect unless Key has been doing some serious moonlighting in Washington I rather doubt his fix for the U.S. economy is of much utility. Somehow, I suspect we're going to be thoroughly sick of economic policy arguments before E-Day rolls around.

    I'd also like to offer a little advice I got in high school English -- engage with the text on the page, not what you think the author should have written.

    I think Key's falls into this category not least of all because the training is not likely to lead anywhere i.e. a qualification.

    Well, Paul, I feel the same about raising the school leaving age -- and I think it's fair comment to ask "where is the work on the additional funding, resources and staff that will be required? And how is this going to lead to more students leaving school with meaningful qualifications, as opposed to just 'warehousing' folks to keep the welfare and unemployment rolls artificially depressed?"

    If this really has been on the drawing board for months, if not years, I'm confident Miss Clark can give straight answers and some straight questions.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    The death penalty for tagging? Fucking disgraceful comment.

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 574 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    where is the work on the additional funding, resources and staff that will be required? And how is this going to lead to more students leaving school with meaningful qualifications, as opposed to just 'warehousing' folks to keep the welfare and unemployment rolls artificially depressed?"

    Craig, the answer is clearly to cut taxes.

    Apologies to Kiwiblogblog/The Standard etc

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 574 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    The death penalty for tagging? Fucking disgraceful comment.

    Absolutely. From a Mayor nonetheless. I realise Christchurch has it's crime problems but it's got a bit rough when the Mayor suggests letting murderers off.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Clarke,

    I'd also like to offer a little advice I got in high school English -- engage with the text on the page, not what you think the author should have written.

    OK, fair cop. However it doesn't undermine the key point (pun intended) that his speech didn't exactly deal with the strategic issues of the day.

    What's more relevant? The economic and climate change issues that will affect every New Zealander in the next 12 months? Or the antisocial behaviour of 1,000 juvenile thugs? I didn't notice any drive-by shootings in my neighbourhood this morning, but I did pay attention to the petrol price at the gas station.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 85 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Sorry, councillor only, not Mayor (and hopefully never will be)

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I didn't notice any drive-by shootings in my neighbourhood this morning, but I did pay attention to the petrol price at the gas station.

    While serious crimes are gratefully still rather rare, they do happen.

    And if one of them did take place in your neighborhood, I bet you'd be taking a lot more attention to it than petrol prices.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Lovely.

    Yeah, and here's the bit that really turns my stomach.

    After the meeting, he said he did not know the full facts of the case, but he stood by his remarks.

    "Everyone is feeling sorry for the kid and his family, but if the kid was not tagging, he would still be alive."

    You're quite right, Cr. Corbett. And if rape victims wouldn't insist on 'provoking' their attackers, they wouldn't get raped. And anyone who lives in the Spreydon-Heathcote Ward (which Corbett represents) whose house is burgled or car stolen -- I've no sympathy. Where do you get off having nice shit in the first place?

    You see, Councillor, blaming the victims of violent crime rather the perpetrators takes on a very sour note when there's no cheap political points to be scored.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Clarke,

    While serious crimes are gratefully still rather rare, they do happen. And if one of them did take place in your neighborhood, I bet you'd be taking a lot more attention to it than petrol prices.

    Well, I'm prepared to feel the fear and drive to the gas station anyway.

    The stats point to falling serious crime rates and rising petrol prices. One of those - the crime - might affect me. The other - petrol prices - does affect me. And on that basis, do I want a PM whose response to the real issues in the country seems to be "Oooh, look over there! Scary monsters under the bed in Manurewa!"

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 85 posts Report Reply

  • A S,

    I think Key's falls into this category not least of all because the training is not likely to lead anywhere i.e. a qualification.

    Lets not overlook the horrific numbers of people who leave compulsory education every year with no qualifications.

    Given the base they are starting from, most second chance education providers do a fantastic job, and the outcomes many of them achieve surpass the fairly dismal results that schools achieve by comparison. If allowing for education provision that actually fits the learning needs of these kids is what is proposed, I'm all for it.

    We should be encouraging a diverse and effective education system, which allows for teaching useful things that people want to learn.

    If we are talking about low quality education, lets look at the inflexible, largely unsuccessful compulsory and tertiary education systems that we currently have which privilege arguably largely useless (i.e. university) quals over qualifications where what is learned might actually be used by the student. The argument about value or otherwise swings both ways.

    From my own perspective, I would be hard pressed to think of a situation where I have ever found any practical use for anything I learned at university, other than the ability to knock off a jug in fairly short order and to regurgitate whatever the lecturer wanted to hear. Not exactly the best use of $40k of student loan.....

    Wellington • Since Nov 2007 • 269 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Craig, the answer is clearly to cut taxes.

    Apologies to Kiwiblogblog/The Standard etc

    They should be apologising to you, but that's a whole other argument. There's a reason why I spend a lot more time around here than the Kiwiblog-Kiwiblogblog/The Standard Axis of Crazy.

    Things can get a bit intense around here (the various threads around the Urewera raids for example), but I come away from PAS having learned a thing or two (and been exposed to some intelligent debate) rather than having the sense I've been watching -- and too often getting sucked into -- the on-line equivalent of piranha fish gnawing their way through a crowded swimming pool.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    From my own perspective, I would be hard pressed to think of a situation where I have ever found any practical use for anything I learned at university

    I can think of hundreds, personally. But then I did a practical course at University, along with the not-immediately-practical. And curiously one of the courses I rated as least practical of all (when the hell am I ever going to write a compiler?), turned out to have been a total goldmine, which in itself paid for my entire time at University, fifteen years later.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    If we are talking about low quality education, lets look at the inflexible, largely unsuccessful compulsory and tertiary education systems that we currently have which privilege arguably largely useless (i.e. university) quals over qualifications where what is learned might actually be used by the student. The argument about value or otherwise swings both ways.

    I would respectfully suggest that sometimes the problem lays between notebook and seat.

    I am a lot more interested in;

    Why students think HE classes should be like school. Why students reject challenging teaching in favour of shortest possible route to an answer.

    My suspicions rest with:

    Large class sizes and results driven assessments that do not reward excellence sufficiently.

    Repeat after me smaller class sizes please

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • ali bramwell,

    I've got a solution - bit radical, although quite obvious considering how all the experts concur that a person's future behaviour and psyche is predicated and shaped by the time they are seven. How about compulsory early childhood education?

    Yes the tag-em and bag-em Councillor may have been a more humane rounded individual if he had had access to quality pre-school education as a child.
    But given that its probably too late to remedy the lapses in his education not electing him would also be good prevention.

    (yes I know your solution was intended for a different 'problem', sorry.)

    Doesnt anyone else think that blaming home life and upbringing is too simplistic?

    No speculation on how to fix the social development the 50 year old murderer and the people who think a clean fence is worth more than a life?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2007 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    From my own perspective, I would be hard pressed to think of a situation where I have ever found any practical use for anything I learned at university, other than the ability to knock off a jug in fairly short order and to regurgitate whatever the lecturer wanted to hear. Not exactly the best use of $40k of student loan.....

    Spot the arts degree!</sneer>

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Well, Paul, I feel the same about raising the school leaving age -- and I think it's fair comment to ask "where is the work on the additional funding, resources and staff that will be required? And how is this going to lead to more students leaving school with meaningful qualifications, as opposed to just 'warehousing' folks to keep the welfare and unemployment rolls artificially depressed?"

    I'd prefer an increase to the education leaving age which is not nearly as expensive and is more likely to be effective. With some reorganisation and better articulation, so-called second chance programs can be effective and can lead to both qualifications and jobs.

    Lets not overlook the horrific numbers of people who leave compulsory education every year with no qualifications.

    Given the base they are starting from, most second chance education providers do a fantastic job, and the outcomes many of them achieve surpass the fairly dismal results that schools achieve by comparison. If allowing for education provision that actually fits the learning needs of these kids is what is proposed, I'm all for it.

    The numbers leaving school with no qualifications are declining - by the looks of it, around 11% leave with little or no formal qualifications. This is a group that need specific attention and highly customised training - elsewhere in this thread I've mentioned some Australian work that estimated the costs at around three times that of other post-compulsory training - and I agree this is probably not best done by schools (though I'm not convinced that Training Opportunities and Youth Training are working as well as they could - if anyone knows what happened to the review done, called something like Pathways and Staircasing, I'd be very interested to know).

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • A S,

    Why students think HE classes should be like school. Why students reject challenging teaching in favour of shortest possible route to an answer.

    My suspicions rest with:

    Large class sizes and results driven assessments that do not reward excellence sufficiently.

    Repeat after me smaller class sizes please

    ALso, how about not expecting all students to conform to a single method of learning, or not subjecting generations to teachers that in many cases are simply going through the motions?

    What one person sees as challenging teaching, another finds tedious and pontifical. It needs to be about making sure that the student gets what they require to reach their potential, not what the educators feel like delivering. The latter approach is what we have now and is reflected by the dismal education stats we see year on year.

    Smaller class sizes would be great. But so too would a greater proportion of teachers who inspire their students to want to learn.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2007 • 269 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I wonder what the evidence is behind increasing leaving ages. I would have thought that if a person is flopping around and failing at school at age 16, that another year or two is probably just going to be more flopping around and failing. If a system hasn't worked for you for 11 years, is two more going to make a difference?

    I'd much rather see the investment go in 3, 5 years earlier when they start to go off the rails. The further we can move the ambulance up the cliff the better.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

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