Hard News: The Wellington Cables
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Don Christie, in reply to
A cynic might comment that they need to continue subsidising their farmers...
I was going to make a similar point. During one recent food shortage in Africa one country had a surplus harvest. The request to the WFO was to fund one to buy maize from the other. The USA opposed as it wanted to dump US surpluses. Given the US & EU *already* stop imports from the rest of the world this behaviour really is a double kick in the teeth.
Apologies for this aside...
and, congratulations Giovanni.
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Hah! You people are collectively so nice, but especially Hilary. I looked for you but didn't think of actually looking up at your office window... some doctor, eh?
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I was actually on the footpath under the tree (and sheltering from the rain) about two metres away from you. Attempted to take a photo on my cell phone, but like my recent one of Rodney Hide,it didn't turn out very well.
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You should have called out!
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Sorry. You may resume your thread about important world events now.
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Che Tibby, in reply to
I looked for you but didn't think of actually looking up at your office window... some doctor, eh?
i think the doctor would term that a house call.
congrats Gio.
that bit of paper is really good for covering the cracks in the plaster you can't afford to mend...
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Lucy Stewart, in reply to
Congrats! Staring at the other end, I'm just starting to appreciate what a monumental amount of work goes into a doctorate (for such a small piece of paper.) Hanging around universities or places like PAS, it's easy to overestimate how many people actually get through doctorates, but it's really not that easy. You should be proud.
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nzlemming, in reply to
that bit of paper is really good for covering the cracks in the plaster you can’t afford to mend…
I'm told they also boil up quite well and can sustain an impecunious post-grad for weeks.
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I'm told they also boil up quite well and can sustain an impecunious post-grad for weeks
VUW advises that the goatskin parchment they print the certificates on is guaranteed to last 500 years, so yes, nutritious.
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Apropos wikileaks and Assange himself, this story doesn't do any favours to Julia Gillard... but then, she appears to be following John Howard's approach to defending dislikable Australian citizen's rights!
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
I don't buy the "US does nothing good in this world"
I don't think that was what I said, which was that I have trouble thinking of one positive that has come US Foreign Policy in the past 15 years. As a general statement I think that is true. It's been a litany of blood, bullying and missteps.
I guess I confused the issue by mentioning one aid instance (Aceh) as an aside but even then, as with much of the aid, there have been political strings attached. Aceh's aid came with an increased CIA and 'terror' related presence in Indonesia. I've met CIA people in Indonesia who were there under the auspices of USAID which shook me at the time although I guess it shouldn't have.
And that's the thing with large amounts of this aid, it does come with the sorts of conditions - political conditions - that taints the goodwill more than a little. It's rarely unconditionally generous.
It's put more than half a billion into Haiti in the past two years.
And large parts of the ongoing disaster, aside from the from the natural, that Haiti has been over the last 100 years is a result of American policy in the regions south of its borders. Hell, in Haiti they reinstituted slavery there in the early 1930s and every coup since has had US involvement through to this century. It, as Cuba was until 1959 and Central America still is, was stripped and trashed to enrich US interests. They really should be the ones with their hands in their pockets there.
On a private, personal, level however I think the US is a massive force for good worldwide - where its government may not be generous on a % of GDP level and ties too much aid to political manoeuvring, the level of generosity shown by the population as a whole is enormous and mostly unconditional.
In this part of the world the real champions are the Japanese though - and the Australians - the amount of work quietly done by both on a state and a private level is just extraordinary.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
And large parts of the ongoing disaster, aside from the from the natural, that Haiti has been over the last 100 years is a result of American policy in the regions south of its borders. Hell, in Haiti they reinstituted slavery there in the early 1930s and every coup since has had US involvement through to this century. It, as Cuba was until 1959 and Central America still is, was stripped and trashed to enrich US interests. They really should be the ones with their hands in their pockets there.
Word. Saying admiringly that the US poured half a billion dollars in Haiti would be like cheering them for spending a lot of money in Iraq. Come on, do we even still need to say these things? Just in case we do, here's Peter Hallward.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
And that’s the thing with large amounts of this aid, it does come with the sorts of conditions – political conditions – that taints the goodwill more than a little. It’s rarely unconditionally generous.
Very true. That's why I noted the two big funds, which do seem to be "clean" aid.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Word. Saying admiringly that the US poured half a billion dollar in Haiti would be like cheering them for spending a lot of money in Iraq.
Yep, I'm aware of the history, but the sum of US relief aid since January's earthquake in Haiti -- which I think we'll agree can't be attributed to US foreign policy -- is more than half a billion dollars, and it was all committed within four weeks of the quake. It appears to have been done right, in conjunction with UN agencies and NGOs.
Even if they owe Haiti, I think that's laudable.
PS: So far as I can tell, two wealthy countries with per-capita aid spending below that of the US are New Zealand and Italy. Shame, bro.
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PS: So far as I can tell, two wealthy countries with per-capita aid spending below that of the US are New Zealand and Italy. Shame, bro.
Agreed. Especially considering the commitments made to 0.7% GDP by rich countries.
I did see an article recently suggesting that by one measure NZ was a much more generous country but I am buggered if I can find that story so consider it hearsay for now.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
Shame, bro
It didn't use to be like that. We used to spend a lot of money, for instance, in Somalia. With much the same effects of the money spent by the US south of their borders. So you could say it's probably a good thing that we give less now. Also, we have a staggering amount of people who volunteer for stuff at home and abroad.
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I believe the phrase American imperialism was coined back then, yes. I still have the literature.
Nah, the term American Imperialism was coined long, long ago and came into popular usage during the aftermath of the Spanish American War and paved the way to Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance or "the Rio Pact" as it is sometimes called.
The treaty was adopted by the original signatories on September 2, 1947 in Rio de Janeiro (hence the colloquial name "Rio Treaty"). It came into force on December 3, 1948. It was registered with the United Nations on December 20, 1948.[3] It was the formalisation of the Act of Chapultepec, adopted at the Inter-American Conference on the Problems of War and Peace in 1945 in Mexico City. The United States had maintained a hemispheric defense policy under the Monroe Doctrine, and during the 1930s had been alarmed by Axis overtures toward military cooperation with Latin American governments, in particular apparent strategic threats against the Panama Canal..
It has been the source of much American... uh... presence and persuasion for either political or economic gain (usually the same thing) over the years.
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Greg Dawson, in reply to
US in the 09 data ranks 1 for net donations (USD28665m), rather less well for donations/GNI (0.2%)
NZ for comparison is poor on both, with USD313m and 0.29%
Using the numbers i got earlier from the OECD, and the population numbers from wikipedia, NZ is decidedly worse per capita.
As I work it out, US is USD92.20 per capita, NZ is USD71.27.
So, we are better than them at % of GNI in aid, but worse per capita, and worse in raw figures (obviously).
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Tim Hannah, in reply to
But presumably better per capita income, not that I'm defending our rate.
Oh, and while I'm not defending our rate, possibly better per capita spent in recipient countries, as I believe a fair amount of US aid money is given to US corn farmers and the like?
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
And, I can't find the link now although I had it a month or three back, something over 50% of all US aid expenditure goes in in-country (as in in-USA) bureaucracy and logistics.
None of which defends our own record, especially when put next to our neighbour. We are a very wealthy country as the massive expenditure on infrastructure and things like a ball game makes evident and yet having seen the large roading projects, IT infrastructure (both extensive and not, I understand, included in their aid percentage as they arrive through other budgets) and school construction projects with the tag "Australia" on them in the poorer parts of SEA, I've yet to see one that carries a kiwi logo.
This is our 'hood and yet we are almost invisible
Each year 11 Indonesians are selected to receive scholarships for post-graduate study at New Zealand universities.
11...
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Simon Grigg - was not quite a lot "aid" given to training etc. members of the Indonesian Armed Forces back in the 1960s/70/80s?
Wrong kind of 'aid'( insofar as I'm concerned) but seems to be a classic example of self-interested help
And, are we factoring in individual Kiwis aid-donations, or just the government stuff?
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Oh, and while I’m not defending our rate, possibly better per capita spent in recipient countries, as I believe a fair amount of US aid money is given to US corn farmers and the like?
I don't think that's it works - by definition foreign aid has to go overseas surely.
I think what the US does is tag a large proportion of the aid and say "this must be spent on US suppliers/contractors etc". That way the money comes back, but there can normally still be competition between different American companies.
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
I don't think that's it works - by definition foreign aid has to go overseas surely.
a huge part of the US aid budget actually goes Israel and Egypt (around 20% I think) and is political in nature. It still gets included.
@islander:
was not quite a lot "aid" given to training etc. members of the Indonesian Armed Forces back in the 1960s/70/80s?
Perhaps - I don't know. In the late 1960s Suharto, at the same time he was slaughtering a million of his countrymen was being welcomed into the grand alliance we were part of and fed aid so it is possible.
Before that we were kinda at war with Indonesia as allies of Malaysia, although my dad tells that they used to fly through Jakarta on the way north to Singapore and it was de-facto ignored that our Canberra bombers were dropping bombs on their guys in Borneo.
Suharto was seen as a good guy by the Western alliance throughout the 1970s and 1980s despite East Timor and the Australian, US and British were very much arming him.
It's a huge black mark on the west - the guy was a monster.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
. . . my dad tells that they used to fly through Jakarta on the way north to Singapore and it was de-facto ignored that our Canberra bombers were dropping bombs on their guys in Borneo.
Fascinating, thanks for that.
During the Keating era Australia provided a huge amount of assistance to the Indonesian military. When the US Congess cancelled the Pentagon’s training programs after the 1991 Dili massacre this was stepped up, and included officer training of and joint exercises with Kopassus, the special forces commanded by Suharto’s son-in-law.
New Zealand operated a Mutual Assistance Program with Indonesia from 1973 until 1999. At its height around 1000 Indonesian military personnel were supposed to have visited NZ for training each year. At the time of the 1975 invasion of East Timor there were six NZ army officers in Indonesia conducting a small arms training course.
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Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas
Kevin Bacon must be the nexus of all evil on earth.
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