Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The Honours

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  • pollywog,

    Sometimes people do actually have to be told, quiet loudly, not to make bad choices.

    ...and when that fails, give em the smack ?

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Yes, because nice women were at home, taking care of the drunk men's children.

    Nailed it. Six o clock swill, anyone?

    are heavily intoxicated women more likely to be taken to the detox tents (as opposed to laughed at by their friends and left in a paddock) than men are?

    Quite. The downside of traditional male gender roles is the assumption of invincible self-reliance that our political champions of the right are prone to inflict on everyone - so we can each lie in our own pool of vomit.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19728 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Phew. I see what recordari meant about the pace.

    It's not really possible to smack your wife round without hurting her.

    Or yourself, where it counts.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19728 posts Report Reply

  • Dinah Dunavan,

    Poor old early suffragettes. They thought that if women got the vote their civilising influence would get men out of the pubs and home early and gentler. Instead women joined the men getting pissed. I wonder if anyone at the time predicted that?
    Not that I'm saying we shouldn't have got the vote.

    Dunedin • Since Jun 2008 • 186 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    so we can each lie in our own pool of vomit.

    i hate being that guy:)

    ...and then there was the time i woke up next to some guy who had pissed himself and soaked me with it :(

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Dyan then moves from criticising female binge drinkers to talking about alcoholics. Alcoholism is a physical addiction with a genetic component - I think calling it a 'bad choice' is a bit... I was going to say 'simplistic', but I think the word I want is 'unfair'.

    This is so complex and fraught with 'the fine line' of interpretation that it's doing my head in. Can't you all be a bit more simplistic about it?

    Emma, your point is well made, and it is something I was trying to express earlier, but deleted for lack of reference. 'Bad choices' depend on the capacity to make good ones, and too often people lose that capacity, for reasons that are not at all simplistic, and are often very unfair.

    Think I'll go re-read the Holiday Musings post, which now involves nudity and German tourists...

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Alcoholism is a physical addiction with a genetic component - I think calling it a 'bad choice' is a bit... I was going to say 'simplistic', but I think the word I want is 'unfair'.

    I will dispute the genetic component, then add cultural. I definitely agree that alcohol is physically addictive.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    ...and then there was the time i woke up next to some guy who had pissed himself and soaked me with it :(

    on thinking back, maybe he was a she ?... dunno, i really was that pissed, besides does it really matter ?

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    I will dispute the genetic component, then add cultural.

    Pretty much everything is a combination of genes and environment.

    Psychiatric geneticists John I. Nurnberger, Jr., and Laura Jean Bierut suggest that alcoholism does not have a single cause—including genetic—but that genes do play an important role "by affecting processes in the body and brain that interact with one another and with an individual's life experiences to produce protection or susceptibility." They also report that fewer than a dozen alcoholism-related genes have been identified, but that more likely await discovery.

    From here. Your genes affect how strong an effect a particular drug has on you, what levels of the enzymes that process alcohol you have. Given our children have two alcoholic grand-parents, I had a long chat with my doctor about this. She was adamant that while there is a genetic pre-disposition, environmental factors like family stability and good drinking role models were more important.

    This is so complex and fraught with 'the fine line' of interpretation that it's doing my head in. Can't you all be a bit more simplistic about it?

    Heh. I have this sort of mental guideline that if you're talking about a particular group, you should write as if members of that group are reading - because this is the internet, and they are. Hopefully this helps to regulate the urge to get all judgy-pants in most people.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    My apologies to anyone reading who found me too judgemental. Thanks for the tip, Emma. My objectivity was dancing round it's own maypole.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    She was adamant that while there is a genetic pre-disposition, environmental factors like family stability and good drinking role models were more important.

    The doctor that accessed me for my ACC claim, deducted %10 of that claim, because my dad was an alcoholic. She argued that my genetics where partly to be blamed for my present condition, regardless of the fact that I haven't used alcohol for fifteen years. Doctors, are not gods, some of them don't adhere to the Hippocratic oath.

    There was a myth, (as I understand it) that Aboriginal Australians, are genetically predisposed to alcoholism. Genetically vulnerable to racism perhaps.

    PS: I haven't used alcohol for fifteen years. That means I am not currently addicted to alcohol. Therefor, I am not an alcoholic, correct?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Alcoholism used to just hit the men of my family, now it's hitting an aunty.
    Her body has started to waste away and the old DTs are clear to see. She's not 50 and I suspect her life will be 20yrs shorter judging by the way alcoholism has killed others in my family and full of the dramas this disease brings.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Emma, I didn't mean to contradict what you said. I Just needed ventilation, for the stuffed old toys in the attic.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    The QSMs for managers is the correct award.

    http://medals.nzdf.mil.nz/category/b/b8.html

    The reports of one firefighter reflects the bitterness and pain he is feeling. I think the jounalist has some fault here too, as it clearly isn't an award for bravery as the firefighter was reported as saying.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    The reports of one firefighter reflects the bitterness and pain he is feeling. I think the jounalist has some fault here too, as it clearly isn't an award for bravery as the firefighter was reported as saying.

    It's been 20 months, and there's been no formal recognition of the actions of those on the pointy end. Now we've got three people whose contribution was to manage the response (which is precisely what (Assistant) Region Fire Commanders do. They're at the Incident Control Point, not out there with BA and a delivery) being given medals. Whether or not they're gallantry medals is irrelevant, really, it's still a decoration being given for actions in relation to the incident. I'm not in the least surprised that those who were caught up in the explosion (and I suspect that the fire fighter who's spoken out is one of the two who had to rescue his colleagues) are bitter. I'd be bitter too, and very, very cynical.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    This sucks, by the way. Row over cool store medals and compensation.

    That comment from "JD" makes me so furious.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Alcoholism runs in my family and it's heavily connected with the Scots ancestry *but* not all family members are affected by it, by any means. The genetic components are not inexorable determinants.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Matthew - agreed. I'm not saying I wouldn't be pissed off either if I was still in recovery because of the fault of the coolstore in the way the operated.

    To speed things up you're really wanting a "Purple Heart" for being wounded in battling the fire, which is fair enough, but that would be a new award.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    To speed things up you're really wanting a "Purple Heart" for being wounded in battling the fire, which is fair enough, but that would be a new award.

    Not even that. The guys who were injured in the explosion and incapacitated, well, really, that's unfortunate but also a hazard of the job. The two who were able to retain their senses, rescue their colleagues, put in the priority message for assistance, and carry out some form of coordinating role of the emergent responders deserve a decoration. That is functioning above and beyond, particularly the one who had been seriously injured in the explosion but still kept it together - as I understand things he assumed command despite having been caught in the explosion, whereas the other fire fighter had been only slightly injured. There's a Fire Service-specific "Queen's Commendation for Brave Conduct", which may be appropriate, but one of the civilian bravery medals such as the NZ Bravery Medal also seems reasonable.

    Also, the civilians who came to help despite not knowing if there could be another explosion. That is seriously gutsy, and they're being even more significantly short-changed with the ongoing lack of recognition.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Why all this outrage over reporting that young women were the vast majority of the drunks that St John treated at R&V? St John said that it's historically been roughly even, but from last year to this it's gone to about 90% women. Is it actually that impossible for anything that makes women look bad to be an objective statement? The assumption that it's because women are more likely to take their friends to detox only works if, suddenly, men have become less likely to take their friends. After all, the last few years the numbers have been about equal. So something has changed with regard to the drinking habits of young women, be it seeking help, or how they're drinking. Or, and I don't consider it to be terribly likely, men are suddenly 80% (from about 50% to about 10%) less likely to see St John than in years past.

    This is hardly the first reporting that indicates that young women are drinking just as poorly as their male counterparts. The police have been making the same observation for quite some time, about the ever-increasing numbers of females who're getting into trouble because of their drinking habits. Is it that they're drinking more? Behaving worse? Or just that society is becoming intolerant of drunk women behaving badly?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    That comment from "JD" makes me so furious.

    Sorry, but since it was my link, which comment and who is JD?

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    recordari, look at the comments at the bottom of the linked article.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Ah, naruhodo, ne! Yes furious is an appropriate response. Still, if this is the quality of their editing abilities; little own important enough to receive a medal, perhaps we shouldn't be too hard in them.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    The doctor that accessed me for my ACC claim, deducted %10 of that claim, because my dad was an alcoholic.

    Oh Steven, that's horrible. I can sympathise - I was sent to an immunologist at one point who, while ignoring the results of my blood tests, diagnosed my chronic fatigue as depression solely because I said my father was an alcoholic. Even after the psychiatrist contradicted him, it remains the most frustrating experience of my illness.

    What I've been trying to say is that genes and environmental factors inter-relate in alcoholism as in so many other health issues. But being taught about alcoholism as a disease and an addiction at high school made a huge difference to the way I viewed my father. For me it was very constructive, but I can totally see the other side of it.

    Matthew: I think you're contradicting an argument no-one is making. We're not saying that women aren't binge drinking, or that their drinking habits haven't changed over the last (it seems) fifty years or so. It's the "women are drinking like men = OMG PANIC!" I have a problem with.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    I mean on them... ;-D Damn! That's me done.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

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