Hard News: Medical Matters
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lucy, if you want to do it with an actual man, without taking the necessary precautions to get the desired result, and involve that man's DNA in your own uterus, then turn around and moan about risk and strain, of achieving the standard result of a well known bilogical reaction, and expect taxes to pay for what you do with the man's DNA, then you probably should have had a little foresight.
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There's a lot of focus made by pro-lifers on the harmful effects of abortion, but they pale in comparison to the risks involved in pregnancy and illegal abortion.
I suggest anyone who thinks criminalising abortion makes things better go read this article by a gynaecologist who did his training in fifties America. That's what happens to women when abortion is illegal.
(Note: the NY Times site does require registration, but it's free.)
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not at all stephen, because I don't want a child. it's not really the issue, it's not about me, it's about the objectifcation of males, and the trivialization of sexual intercourse, brought about from living a long time in a country where abortion is a non issue and where unprotected sex is rampant.
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mark: you want a brood-mare, get a horse.
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lucy, if you want to do it with an actual man, without taking the necessary precautions to get the desired result, and involve that man's DNA in your own uterus, then turn around and moan about risk and strain, of achieving the standard result of a well known bilogical reaction, and expect taxes to pay for what you do with the man's DNA, then you probably should have had a little foresight.
I'm sorry, are you arguing that men should be able to veto abortions, or that they shouldn't have to pay child support? Because I was under the impression you were supporting the former, in which case I think it is perfectly reasonable to moan about the risk and strain of a pregnancy being imposed on you by someone else, no? If it's my life and health on the line (not to mention, you know, career, freedom for the next eighteen years, etcetera) then I feel perfectly justified telling the father to fuck off.
But, of course, all women who have unplanned pregnancies are stupid sluts who must be shamed and forced to carry the burden of their wanton ways. Silly me, forgetting that.
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I don't think you'd get more than a handful of cases a year where there was a dispute between the family over whether to abort the child at all, I MERELY THINK THAT BOTH PARTIES SHOULD TECHNICALLY HAVE SOME RECOURSE INTO WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEIR DNA
but furthermore i think it would promote a more forward thinknig attitude to who new zealanders f*ck when they're wasted.
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First your proposed justification for a male veto rested in some notion that you had rights. Then it was about taxpayers paying. Now it's about trivialising sex, and objectifying men (__what does that even mean?__).
To me that all sounds like one rationalisation after another for compelling women to bear children they don't want.
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I'm arguing if a man vetos an abortion he should be forced to take complete financial and fiscal responsibility for that decision
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So basically, in order to prevent people fucking when wasted, you'd like to threaten one or both parties to an extensive financial and physical commitment.
I don't find that morally compelling, or good policy. It does seem like a very punitive attitude towards drunken sex, which empirically many many many citizens enjoy.
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Not at all stephen, it's about compelling people to use protection, if you read what i read above,
"except in cases of rape, proven prophylactic failure or molestation,"
If a woman doesn't want the child, she need only stop the penis before it enters the vagina
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I think this issue is going to blow over pretty quickly. "Moral" issues don't have much political traction here, unlike in the US.
I think both Labour and National won't make a big issue of this on the hustings, they'll be focused on the main issues. Also, while the Nats are conservatives, I reckon Bill English, as a practicing Catholic, might be the only of them to have any interest in this as an issue. But I suspect he'll be more interested in the bigger picture than getting diverted by this issue.
Mark Taslov, as yourself this: would you be as fervently against abortion if men could get pregnant? I suspect not.
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i'm not threatening anything. i'm simply making an attempt to offer a method to cut the tax payer money spent on abortion by encouraging a little forethought.
you'll find there's a certain logic there.
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I'm arguing if a man vetos an abortion he should be forced to take complete financial and fiscal responsibility for that decision
Financial = fiscal, just to clear that up, but that still doesn't change the fact that he would be using another human being as his own personal baby incubator, which is what I would call possibly the largest violoation of bodily autonomy possible. What on earth makes you think any man has the right to force any woman to risk her life and health because he wants a kid, when she doesn't? Just because they had sex? Last I looked, sex stopped implying ownership sometime last millenium.
Now, if a man came to an agreement with a woman that she would have the kid and he would then take full legal and financial responsibility for it, that's another story, but that's more akin to surrogacy. If I'm not mistaken you're talking about a situation where the woman wants to have an abortion and the father (potential father?) is permitted to forbid that, which, see violation of bodily autonomy above.
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grant i'm not against abortion, I'm a long time supporter of abortion,
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well lucy, using a woman as his baby incubator is no different from using a man as a lifelike dildo imho.
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personally i think this would make men more responsible too, encouraging responsibiltiy does tend to encourage responsibility
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Do we have a christian right in this country? if so, where has it gone
Well, Density Church exist, so we do in a minute way. Otherwise, where has it gone, you ask? Vanished into thin air since Graeme Capill got sent up the river, I suspect.
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I'm arguing if a man vetos an abortion he should be forced to take complete financial and fiscal responsibility for that decision
Wow, that's well creepy.
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grant i'm not against abortion, I'm a long time supporter of abortion,
Well then in that case, you should have no qualms with a woman's right to choose then.
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using a woman as his baby incubator is no different from using a man as a lifelike dildo
And that's tipped over from creepy to psychopathic.
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using a woman as his baby incubator is no different from using a man as a lifelike dildo
We have been trolled, very effectively. I sucked into taking you seriously up until there, mark, but if you want to provoke successfully you're going to have to refrain from the obviously ludicrous.
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well lucy, using a woman as his baby incubator is no different from using a man as a lifelike dildo imho.
...because consensual sexual activity is the same as being forced to endure nearly a year of physical discomfort, a pronounced risk to one's health and life, not to mention time off work and the emotional problem of giving up your child to a misogynistic asshole?
Seriously, dude - you either on drugs or actually think women are there to carry people's babies. I know which I'm hoping for.
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I MERELY THINK THAT BOTH PARTIES SHOULD TECHNICALLY HAVE SOME RECOURSE INTO WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEIR DNA
We do. If I don't have sex with women, I can't get them pregnant.
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We have been trolled, very effectively. I sucked into taking you seriously up until there, mark, but if you want to provoke successfully you're going to have to refrain from the obviously ludicrous.
I was thinking of calling troll a few posts ago, but it's study break and I don't have much to do. In retrospect, it would have been the wiser decision.
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Well, Density Church exist, so we do in a minute way.
You should keep an eye on them. You might be surprised how prolific they are around Maori and other Polynesian communities. Various members of the Maori party certainly seem to feel there's value in keeping on their good side.
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