Hard News: Dropping the Bomber
389 Responses
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Goff could do a lot worse right now than turn up on the beaches and make the appropriate noises.
It would also have the benefit of pointedly showing who isn't there....not that I'm looking at anyone in particular, John.
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Martin Lindberg, in reply to
...that's got to command a response more than, "I've not been briefed on that yet"?
I didn't hear him on the radio this morning, but I did catch him on Checkpoint yesterday. I though he sounded very well-briefed about the grounding. Even to the point I found myself wondering who was talking. It sounded like the PM's voice, but but but...
I don't generally have much time for him, but credit where credit's due. IMHO, of course.
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3410, in reply to
They were both there yesterday.
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'K, fair enough. Didn't catch that.
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Paul Williams, in reply to
FFS, Paul, and if he hasn’t been briefed yet should he just pull something out of his arse?
Craig, he should get briefed and inform the public at any and every opportunity, this isn't something that's developed overnight.
ETA:
I didn't hear him on the radio this morning, but I did catch him on Checkpoint yesterday. I though he sounded very well-briefed about the grounding. Even to the point I found myself wondering who was talking. It sounded like the PM's voice, but but but...
I've not heard it either, will find and listen.
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I realise that being PM is a busy job and that he has many things to be on top of. But this is big and devastating to Tauranga. If the PM does not know what is going on then that is a problem and a slip-up. Admitting it is the right thing to do but the PM should not be in that position. If the questions are about important issues in the incident they should have answers.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Craig, he should get briefed and inform the public at any and every opportunity, this isn’t something that’s developed overnight.
Well, shoulda woulda coulda and $4 bucks will buy you a coffee. But you know what, Paul, I bet Stephen Joyce wishes he wasn’t all over the media yesterday (over-) confidently asserting that there was nothing hazardous in any of the containers that went overboard. Whoops – either he was spectacularly poorly briefed or engaged in a bit of wishin’ and hopin’ that’s come back to bite him in the arse.
Goff could do a lot worse right now than turn up on the beaches and make the appropriate noises. It would also have the benefit of pointedly showing who isn’t there….not that I’m looking at anyone in particular, John.
I really don't think it's very smart of Goff (or any other politician) to be saying shit like this:
"[Residents] feel that they want to be out there now, helping clean up, yet they are being told to stay away," he said.
"I think it would be much better to try involve the locals. Get them the equipment, give them the safety instruction that they need and to make them part of the solution.
"This is their beach. It means a lot to them and at the moment they feel they are not being involved."
Fucking hell, Phil - do you think it might be a little better for properly trained experts who already have training - and access to safety equipment - to get the hell on with mitigating the potentiall catastrophic effectis as far as possible? Yes, I can understand why locals feel frustrated but that's preferable to the long-term effects of poisoning.
Pardon my cynicism, but it might not be a bad thing if Tauranga was declared a politician-free red zone and the people who are actually more use than a stiff prick in a dyke bar on date night go to work.
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Martin Lindberg, in reply to
Pardon my cynicism, but it might not be a bad thing if Tauranga was declared a politician-free red zone and the people who are actually more use than a stiff prick in a dyke bar on date night go to work.
Succinctly put, as always. I have to agree (people will start talking soon). I suppose it's a feather in the cap for a lot of reporters to get a minister or the PM to answer questions. But all we get is noise - they are asking the wrong person. There are Crown entities with directors and general managers and operational staff who are in charge of the immediate response. Yes, the government is responsible for making sure they have the resources they need, but otherwise - stay the fsck out.
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3410,
Yes, I can understand why locals feel frustrated but that's preferable to the long-term effects of poisoning.
Yep, attempting to clean up without safety equipment and training is a bad idea. Just remind where Goff said that locals should do that.
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Paul Williams, in reply to
Well, shoulda woulda coulda and $4 bucks will buy you a coffee.
I have low expectations of coffee, but very high ones of PMs at times of national crisis. I did not criticise him during the Pike River crisis, nor particularly during the earthquake, but they were both events for which no specific planning could occur and responses were only limited by the availability of resources etc.
IMO, this has been a different scenario where the damage done may have been reduced had there been an immediate, comprehensive response from across all levels of government.
That's when PMs are essential, they can command resources and co-ordination. I'd go so far as to say, that he should be on the ground so that he can understand the situation directly to help him act as the Executive.
Not being briefed is a failure to use the powers of office.
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Lilith __, in reply to
IMO, this has been a different scenario where the damage done may have been reduced had there been an immediate, comprehensive response from across all levels of government.
That’s when PMs are essential, they can command resources and co-ordination. I’d go so far as to say, that he should be on the ground so that he can understand the situation directly to help him act as the Executive.
+1 Couldn't have put it better.
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Ya know, John Key must be the unluckiest bugger in NZ Prime Ministerial history. This is triple whammy hit for him and if the AB's lose, *shudder* he would have to think that God doesn't want him to be PM any more. Certainly in earlier, more simpler times, we would be looking at mollifying the gods....somehow...
Now, I hope that his gang get tossed out more than anything at the moment but he's had the worst earthquake, the worst oil spill and the worst mining accident for nearly 100 years all on his watch. Plus the credit downgrade and his possum-in-the-headlights- Paul Henry moment.
The War Prime Ministers, of course, had much more trying times but there was a defined enemy and a pretty singular course of actions to follow
Jebus, what would be happening if Don Brash had got in? -
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
IMO, this has been a different scenario where the damage done may have been reduced had there been an immediate, comprehensive response from across all levels of government.
Which is a marginally more useful argument to have than bitching the Prime Minister for admitting he didn't know specific answers to specific questions at a presser. A charge which, it seems, isn't even particularly fair.
Yep, attempting to clean up without safety equipment and training is a bad idea. Just remind where Goff said that locals should do that.
Perhaps you can show me where Goff deigned to point out that there were perfectly legitimate environmental and safety reasons why locals were warned off in the first place. And while we're talking about being under-briefed, safe handling and disposal of toxic oil and God only knows what else might wash up is a little more complicated that photocopying a couple of flyers, and handing out rubber gloves and zip-lock baggies.
Could it be within the realm of possibility that there are bigger priorities - and a ticking clock attached to a environmental suitcase nuke - in play here?
I get the politics - man of the people vs. the uncaring Government and out of touch bureaucratic bunglers - but I'm not really convinced he's being entirely helpful or responsible.
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BenWilson, in reply to
And while we're talking about being under-briefed, safe handling and disposal of toxic oil and God only knows what else might wash up is a little more complicated that photocopying a couple of flyers, and handing out rubber gloves and zip-lock baggies.
Is it? What is actually involved? It looks like a job for some gumboots, rubber gloves, a shovel and plastic bags.
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3410,
I'm not really convinced he's being entirely helpful or responsible.
Look, I'm going to give you half a point for that. Spending five minutes with a spade doesn't make you look like you're helping to fix the situation; it makes you look like a craven opportunist, and not a very smart one at that (and props to Key for not - as far as I know - doing that).
Yes, Goff's comments were not exactly helping, as usual. He should have pointed out that there's a damn good reason why people should not be cleaning up without appropriate training and equipment, but he didn't quite advocate behaviour that would get people poisoned, which is what you implied.
(BTW, the first quote was not from me).
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3410,
What is actually involved?
Masks are essential, apparently. MNZ should be spelling that out, rather than just saying "don't do it".
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Thomas Johnson, in reply to
Yep, attempting to clean up without safety equipment and training is a bad idea. Just remind where Goff said that locals should do that.
Perhaps where he is pictured leading by example, cleaning up in a business suit with no protective gear and (I'm confident in claiming) no training?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/rena-crisis/5776792/Visiting-politicians-dig-in
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3410,
Actually, that's a fair call.
I concede the point to Craig, and give Goff yet another facepalm.
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Someone help me, please. I have a picture of a scantily-clad Liz Hurley shooting gaggles of gay autistic looters (after they've been drafted into the army so that they can be court-martialled, naturally) from the pillion seat of Phil Goff's Brut 33-fuelled motorbike as he speeds towards a Destiny Church fundraising barbeque in Waitakere. Now, how can I fit shovelling oily sludge into this picture?
Yep, attempting to clean up without safety equipment and training is a bad idea.
No, it's a really good idea for him and with luck we should get a decent martyr out of it. I just want the rest of the front bench to do it too, while smoking unfiltered Black Russians.
OK, sorry about my cynicism (I don't waste time being sorry about bad taste), but at least I consider the Labour front bench worthy of contempt.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
. . . makes you look like a craven opportunist, and not a very smart one at that . . .
Is it just the way he comes across, or are Crosby|Textor handling all his photo ops?
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Sacha, in reply to
IMO, this has been a different scenario where the damage done may have been reduced had there been an immediate, comprehensive response from across all levels of government.
That's when PMs are essential, they can command resources and co-ordination.
Being able to activate emergency laws is valuable. People also look for moral leadership and encouragement in times of crisis. We know that's not going to come from the Board or exectitives of a government department. Peter Whittall at Pike River was filling a vacuum. An ideologically-preferred one for this current government.
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Sacha, in reply to
the worst earthquake, the worst oil spill and the worst mining accident for nearly 100 years all on his watch
Crap luck to some extent, yes, but ironically also the inevitable legacy of previous bursts of free-market madness, putting short-term profit and convenience for lazy managers above broader long-term wellbeing. The linked article is a bit one-eyed, but it's a valid point that the marine, mining and building industries were all "deregulated" in NZ's neolib nuttiness of the 1980s and 90s.
Recall that Christchurch also had a protracted battle with developers and building owners resisting spending money on safety upgrades even with a healthy dose of socialised risk on the table.
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Sacha, in reply to
Masks are essential, apparently. MNZ should be spelling that out, rather than just saying "don't do it".
Their CEO was saying "we might hand them out" on the tv news a couple of nights ago. You'd think that would be an early part of the developed-beforehand plan for such predictable emergencies. Like communicating with the public.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
but he didn’t quite advocate behaviour that would get people poisoned, which is what you implied.
And I’ll concede my comment could reasonably have been read that way, and that’s unfair to Goff,
Meanwhile, I wish I wasn’t watching Key and Goff waving their cocks at each other on One News. Jeebus Crust, I’d like to take the naughty step and slap them both upside the head.
Like communicating with the public.
That actually works both ways, Sacha. It would help in situations like this if the ADHD media built a bridge and got over this particular mutation of CSI syndrome. On Planet Earth, reliable and useful information doesn't just materialise to suit the news cycle. It can be done -- with a few exceptions, after the second Christchurch quake media outlets got that it was more important to get things right (and provide prompt and prominent correction of misinformation) than get the scoop.
It would also be a genuine public service if "rage" was occasionally tempered by facts. It's knowledge, bro, and it matters.
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3410,
Their CEO was saying "we might hand them out" on the tv news a couple of nights ago.
I'd really like to see this one cleared up. I saw a doctor somewhere (can't find it anymore) say that breathing in the oil is extremely dangerous. What does Maritime NZ have to say about it? Nothing that I can find.
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