Hard News: Calling the race before it's over
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One Standard post about 'old guard' claims is interesting in light of our discussion above - usual caution about wading into the comments applies, and the place is rife with factional angles as you'd imagine.
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Felix Marwick, in reply to
Not quite, upthread I thought I read from Stephen at least (possibly Felix too) that Carmel Sepuloni and Andrew Little acknowledged the obvious.
Phil Goff, David Parker, Damien O'Connor, Jacinda Ardern, Kris Faafoi, and Ian Lees Galloway also referenced it publicly as well. I've had on the record quotes from all of them
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BenWilson, in reply to
Well, why would one? Given that the Greens don't do any of this crap. If one's a righty...
One might be between the Green and Nat positions. Actually one in three is, currently.
I'm still pretty happy about what's happened in this conference, at the end of the day. I'm not voting for them, but they're more palatable as a coalition partner. They're putting pressure on National to respond to the housing policy, which is important. For the first time in quite a while, they may have set the political agenda.
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DexterX, in reply to
Except there's nothing about how all this is going to appear to the general public.
It is an opinion - How it appears to the general public isn't always the same as how it is reported in the media.
To me, as an unqualified member of the public, looking at the range of news report the unison of opinion in favour of Shearer, and having particular regard to the reporter who badgered Cunny it looks to me like a "rat trap" was set.
It takes a serious rat to set a rat trap. So, for now, Shearer remains the Rat King.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Well, it’s not quite Kiwiblog of the left, but lets just say the toys are on the floor and a few claims to never be voting for Labour ever again :)
Lots of claims that Cunliffe and Cunliffe alone posed a major threat to pro business neo liberal status quo, and thus had to be silenced.I'm finding the backlash a bit odd and distasteful right now.
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I’m finding the backlash a bit odd and distasteful right now.
A bit cryptic for me, Russell (which may possibly be because I’m several glasses of wine up). The backlash against DS et al, or the backlash against DC et al?
ETA: The several glasses of wine are due to work related issues, not angst over today's events.
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Jane Clifton is scathing about Cunliffe in this.
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DexterX, in reply to
the backlash
In the long run it may turn out to be self flagellation.
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Well, why would one? Given that the Greens don’t do any of this crap. If one’s a righty, and wants to dig up Northland / run slave labour fishing trawlers / watch pr0n videos on the taxpayers dollar, there is always the National Party, or the MaoriNats
I’m just going to say that I think this is a highly selective sample of misdeeds. I like the current mob of Greens, I think they bring something important to the parliament, but can we not turn this into a recruitment drive?
One Standard post about ‘old guard’ claims is interesting in light of our discussion above – usual caution about wading into the comments applies, and the place is rife with factional angles as you’d imagine
Read the first para, it started well, but like the blog itself, it degenerated quickly into, frankly, rubbish. Too many people are accessing the interwebz to publish their minute by minute conspiracy theories. Smarter folk might take time to think & reflect before advising the universe of their ‘take’.
Actually, one more thing about Zeletic, while I’m at it; if s/he’s going to claim to be on the spot historian, tell us your name or shut up.
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Sacha, in reply to
Too many people are accessing the interwebz to publish their minute by minute conspiracy theories.
You'll enjoy the Clifton article. :)
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Barnard, in reply to
One Standard post about ‘old guard’ claims is interesting in light of our discussion above – usual caution about wading into the comments applies, and the place is rife with factional angles as you’d imagine.
No one does nasty pointless factionalism quite like the left.
I'm a Green voter, but know we need a unified, mature and committed Labour party if we're going to see a change of government.
I think the reason why I've found DC and his supporters so frustrating as tied to nudge nudge plotting & factionalism seems to be an idea that the right personality at the head is going to be a magic wand to save the party.
It's not, even if some of concerns about Shearer are possibly warranted. National seem almost entirely reliant on the cult of Key. Labour can't win at that game, but they can if they have a team that can put across a group of policies that present ideas of a different direct for the country.
Lets hope they can now build on the week and start doing that (Although I worry that DC & his supporter won't let it go). -
I suppose throwing Cunliffe in the cargo hold beats throwing him to the sharks, as happened with Chris Carter. Cunliffe has too much policy savvy to go to waste, but Shearer can't be written off just yet and could well hit policy gold with the new housing plan. And surprisingly, the Granny's political team have all given him 9/10.
In any case, both of them can look to the Helen Clark-Mike Moore dynamic for a past precedent of how hatchets can be buried. And in the Twitterverse, people seem to agree that the Shearer-Cunliffe stoush is nothing compared to Aussie Labor Party factionalism.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
No one does nasty pointless factionalism quite like the left.
I'm a Green voter, but know we need a unified, mature and committed Labour party if we're going to see a change of government.The sooner this kind of Peoples' Front of Judeaism can be put to rest, the better. Unlike the ideological split between Lange & Douglas in the late 1980s, it seems like two cyclists fighting over a can of petrol this time round. I would have thought that the bitterest factions broke away during the early MMP era.
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Paul Williams, in reply to
You’ll enjoy the Clifton article. :)
I’ll save it for when I’m feeling more equanimous. On average, I used to like three of five of her columns.
As an aside, isn’t it time for talent regeneration… Clifton, Coddington, Henry, Tamihere, even the bloke from Morning Report who married a Hawkesbury… I vote Russell, Toby Manhire, Deborah R (from 'round here), Danyl and Farrar even.
And in the Twitterverse, people seem to agree that the Shearer-Cunliffe stoush is nothing compared to Aussie Labor Party factionalism.
It so totally is not. I retain my membership of the NZ Labour Party despite not having been a resident for a decade. I’ll not ever, in all likelihood, join the ALP, unless or until you can join the national wing of the party, rather than the state… even then…
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Deborah, in reply to
@Paul Williams.... :-) Contemplating what I might do.
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Sacha, in reply to
Labour can't win at that game
Totally agree. Root strategic failure.
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Sacha, in reply to
Unlike the ideological split between Lange & Douglas in the late 1980s
That Trotter post traces the current factionalism back to the party's Rogernomic rogering. Like most of this stuff, I have no idea how true that is.
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Watching this from a distance, I can see why Labour members might want a bigger say in electing the Labour leader.
On the other hand, the much larger number of people who vote for Labour might prefer that the Labour leader (the leader of the opposition, and potentially the prime minister) be chosen only by the members of caucus who are actually elected by voters like themselves…
The Labour party can of course run itself as its members see fit – but there is an interesting question of ownership here, in that many Labour voters may see themselves as having a moral stake in the Labour party, even if they are not paying dues – in much the same way that Cantabrians see themselves having a stake in the Cathedral, even if very few of them actually bother to join the church…
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Barnard, in reply to
The sooner this kind of Peoples’ Front of Judeaism can be put to rest, the better. Unlike the ideological split between Lange & Douglas in the late 1980s, it seems like two cyclists fighting over a can of petrol this time round. I would have thought that the bitterest factions broke away during the early MMP era.
That most of the ideological battles are in theory ancient history has stopped party's of the left from infighting. These days it's either usually just purely personal or over image.
Having said that, there are lots of people claiming Cuncliffe as a man of left, who'll will wipe away any traces of neo liberal orthodoxy.
Have I missed the evidence for these claims? -
Er, that should read 'hasn't stopped...'
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Paul Williams, in reply to
@Paul Williams…. :-) Contemplating what I might do.
Grand. I've no sense of the economy of sane, well considered and moderate analysis but...
Like most of this stuff, I have no idea how true that is.
I'm a little over this Sacha. I say this as someone not directly affected however (and I spent the best part of an hour on the phone to my father-in-law who is, not unreasonably, still pissed off about that government (he owned an SME in dairy manufacturing)). There's some clever saying about not fighting tomorrow's battles based on historical defeats I'd like to quote but can't recall.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Phil Goff, David Parker, Damien O'Connor, Jacinda Ardern, Kris Faafoi, and Ian Lees Galloway also referenced it publicly as well. I've had on the record quotes from all of them
Wicked. Did they say what they base their opinion of a coup brewing on? I seriously haven't heard any evidence other than tribal opinion. Which might be enough, it's not like it's a court, but it's just not something I'm going to base an opinion on. It reminds me of corporate decision making, and not in a good way.
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Paul Williams, in reply to
Did they say what they base their opinion of a coup brewing on?
I'm guessing, but I suspect it's a combination of direct and indirect approaches by Cunliffe's 'team'. Goff and Ardern seem odd additions to this list though.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Goff and Ardern seem odd additions to this list though.
They could have been informed of such approaches to other people, though. But:
I'm guessing, but I suspect
Is the tale of this weekend.
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Something I forgot to note for Ian Dalziel in my earlier reply to him: next year’s Labour conference will be in Christchurch.
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