Posts by samuel walker
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I understand your perspective samuel, I guess that I just can't get my head around the motivation to damage things we don't like in order to get attention.
we agree on that A.S. I personally never would consider such an action. Breaking in and plastering a big red target on it would have been a lot more classy, and would have gotten the publicity too. However it would have been a lot less likely to work. I understand they didnt expect their plan to pop bubble to work anyway....
On the huge leap thing, I would have said that in looking at it dispassionately, there isn't really much difference between events at Waihopai and the burning school/hopital e.g's.
they are public spaces. big difference.
they also involve the young and the sick. and would include the possible presence of non-involved people. where as everyone inside the Echelon base is involved in the project. Plus they rendered the dish unusable [yes, via vandalism] but they didnt blow it up, or burn it to the ground. It is a much more focused message than that.their actions do not make me consider them people to fear. Whereas any fool burning a school [and it happens, normally as mindless vandalisim] immediately gets tagged by me as probably cowardly, stupid, irrational, scary, selfish.
And yes, the cost is a concern, the funding of the base is obviously secret and complex, one would hope that whoever benefits from its actions would be responsible for maintaining its security properly and covering any costs that arise due to it's controversial nature. We may never really know.
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any one that says the ploughshares could have got their point across as effectively in other ways is wrong
This logic is a bit screwy, isn't it?
If I thought the education system was bad, would I be justified in burning down a school? Or if I had concerns about the health system, would I be justified setting a couple of wards ablaze?
oh nonono. sorry, i spat that comment out in a bit of a hurry. its possible I could have been clearer. Im not sure why you think I am advocating some kind of terrorism though...
putting aside the fact that i see your burning schools and hospitals comparison as a HUGE leap beyond inconveniencing a satelite dish operation....
I heard a snippet of Bill English on Bfm this morning, filling in for the regular John Key bit. He stated that the group could have got the same message out to the public without resorting to such tactics. When in fact there has been quite a lot of noise around Echelon over the years, most with no way near as much cut through.
I didnt mean to justify their actions. But it seems likely to have been slightly more strategicly cunning than the standard piket etc, in that the government is going to either have to discuss certain aspects of the echelon operations or look guilty in their silence.
so to restate my logic: they got the best possible publicity, a lot more than any others have on the same topic recently. could they have achieved such results any other way? with out hurting people or inconveniencing the public? nope.
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What?? Havoc and Newsboy did it first in 2001 when they used a ladder to climb the fence, roamed around a bit and had a pee on on the facilities. In some ways, it was more audacious as they did it with the aim of putting their actions on primetime TV, to show the non-existent security.
and they danced. they grooved out with those funky bubbles.
from memory they got close enough to actually pop it themselves, I wouldnt have thought it was that easy...but they didnt [pop it] and therefore did not get the front page of the herald. any one that says the ploughshares could have got their point across as effectively in other ways is wrong.
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... I wonder why this blog site is getting so 'exercised' about Ian's book. Let it be. If it's rubbish, then it will self-destruct anyway.
possible reason:
sometimes the nutters talk so loudly, and so fast, and get so good at hiding their pyrotechnic leaps of logic that the uninformed and impressionable get hooked like helpless little fishies. and then they get fried up for dinner, and never know what hit em'.
also:
Its funny, a little depressing, but hella funny. Like our own episode of The Office. as the deluded and simple minded fool tries to act as a leader of men. with delusions of greatness and justice. and a merry band of guileless cheerleaders.
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genius.
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those of you with an interest in logical gymnastics
nice, there are some Comaneci grade flips going on there...
that Dad4justice gives me the shivers though....yuck.
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David Ritchie:
thanks for the greasemonkey script,
to me you are the spark that ignites the flame that lights the philly that is media7.
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But isn't 'civilization' nothing more than the extent to which we place restraints -- however imperfect they might be -- on our most atavistic urges? Slowly and painfully, the raging vengeance of the Furies with the rule of law. It's a struggle without end, but if you're not even going to fight your own reptilian brain, what's left except the mob and the endless night?
rousing stuff craig.
I would personally change restraints to controls; or guides maybe. Its not so much about dulling these primal reactions as acting on them within the confines of humanism.
One of the walkouts was a woman whose daughter was the victim of a gang murder in 1997: she's got a pass to say and think what she likes.
Whilst I have empathy for anyone in a similar situation. If she is using an isolated event to argue publicly for and unneccessary and unfair social systems change then I would contend that no, she doesnt have a pass.
But the SST had a policy of its own: a three strikes law that would see repeat violent offenders given the mandatory maximum ......
If they want to get anyone to take this at all seriously they really need a name other than 3 strikes. If your first thoughts about the proposal are to compare it to an international joke it's going to be an uphill battle.
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un
deux
trois
voilà!thanks.
appreciate it, so much better burnt and on the big(ger) screen.
stats on the TVNZ ondemand version
loading and playing in the background to maintain honest stats....
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any direct links to d/l the three parts of Media7 as per last week?
purty purty puhlease.....