Posts by Brickley Paiste
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But seriously, if drug use actually is being touted as a reason for the Alt-Ed funding "review" then it's wrong and dishonest.
I don't quite understand what's going on here, but I don't like the look of it.
It certainly looks like a punch up. These things don't come out of nowhere, much less make it into the newspaper.
It pisses me off because, and I mean this honestly, were it not for readily available marijuana in high school, I never would have graduated.
It was the only learning aid that allowed me to settle down long enough to complete the piles of pointless busy work that was necessary to attain the qualification. Where can I score, man? I have to study!
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It's just too nice a day to spend arguing against the proposition that nothing is better than something.
Agreed. And at least we can be completely confident that the nice weather will receive the near saturation coverage it so obviously merits.
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I can't tell whether you're being ironic, snarking or what.
I thought the discussion was good. But also a bit ironic and snarking. A melange.
Are you saying he and the paper should have refused to go at the State Department's invitation?
Yes
That would, of course, have meant no reportage at all
Such as we have on most areas of public policy. The status quo doesn't seem to have people out shouting in the streets.
The script noted some local stories and said "But these excellent stories are the exception. Are we seeing enough coverage of Afghanistan in the media?" It sounded like a question to me.
My point was that the stories probably weren't excellent. But maybe they were. I'll go back and read them.
I don't think Gower ducked the provenance question at all
Because you lobbed a softball question from heaven to dispense with the issue at the outset.
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Interesting disucssion on Afghanistan. Good to know that when the US State Department sends a New Zealand journalist there what that journalist is left with is a "feel" for the desires of the US State Department. Truly profound. Thanks for holding his feet so firmly over the fire on that one. Too bad we don't have real foreign correspondents or any relevant world news of which to speak. Of course, according to the VO in the intro, the media "is" producing "excellent stories". Glad we haven't presupposed our own disucssion -- spooky music notwithstanding.
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Have you ever read The Road To Wigan Pier? You really really should, esp. the bits about the price of food.
No, it's one of the few of his I haven't read but now will. Thanks.
But it is purportedly quite tricky according to many, which is what he said. It was a good example and great satire.
Yes, but they're wrong. Two and a Half Men is purportedly funny except in reality it isn't. I didn't say the satire wasn't funny. It was. It was just a poor example to choose for the satire because shushi is actually not difficult to make.
You do seem a little “born again” about the whole thing.
At the moment I find his arguments highly convincing.
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unless you count cornstarch in one of them
Funny, because the entire first chapter of Pollan's "The Omnivore's Dilemma" is a engrossing essay on corn and its multitude of uses.
Many people say sushi is hard
Bad example. Sushi is piss easy.
Meta-comment: this thread has now become breathtakingly awesome. I cannot see the words 'proletarian felafel' and 'bourgeois legume croquettes' without giggling uncontrollably.
Agreed!
And Brickley, you're advancing a religious, or at least philosophical, argument. Good luck to you, but it suits me fine to incorporate the odd good-quality product with my fresh ingredients on a weeknight.
Fair enough. Not religious though. I'm happy to admit I'm just being a (poor) mouth piece for all the Michael Pollan I'm currently reading. Did you read his send-up of cooking programmes/demos in the New York Magazine piece I linked to? It's pretty hard to argue with.
Sole Google result for "bourgeois legume croquettes". Awesome.
This is a huge accomplishment. I suggest we have t-shirts made in honour of this thread.
This is why you brew your own soy sauce, and mill your own flour, right?
That isn't convincing. That reminds me of a friend in Europe who said that she has a cleaning woman because if she wanted to do it all herself she would buy her own cow to make her own milk.
I'm talking about using first materials like soy sauce and flour to make food from scratch. Ideally, I guess we would but your argument is totally impractical.
it's a attack on something very essential to them.
That fails to explain how or why it is classist. League is essential to me but if you say you deplore its violence or idiocy I'm not going to say you're classist.
And, of course, the people who tend to eat not-food, oddly enough, tend not to be so well-off.
Because of the corporate food interests at food shows. Boiled carrots aren't expensive. It will always be cheaper to eat a peach in season than a Moro bar.
A bit, but you lose me completely when you make it prescriptive. Conversations of this kind often devolve into the idea that eating well and being healthy are moral imperatives and I find that line of thinking decidedly distasteful. Plus, we all live imperfect lives, trading the time it would take to learn to make the perfect Platonic porridge with other things we've got going.
On utilitarian grounds it could be morally imperative. And I'm not being prescriptive. Eat as you like. I won't stand in your way. But I think what and how we choose to eat can be argued about. The cost of the other side -- and you and I sound as if we are on the same side -- is that they eat a lot of stuff that isn't really food. This is expensive and makes people unhealthy. The cost of my side, which makes you uncomfortable, is that I sound supercilious.
There's also the fact that some people simply do not like cooking, while others regard food as fuel.
But we need to eat! That's what makes this debate about this human activity so important. Cooking and food is part of who we are.
Dude, that was verbatim from the link you posted to try and prove your own argument. I didn't make up any fancy-ass Grey Lynn falafel recipe.
I posted that link just to make the point that falafel, bourgeois or otherwise, is simply made out of a chick pea base with some stuff. I only read the first paragraph. My mistake.
And why on earth were you eating vegetarian cheese with HAM!?!!
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given you're more SWPL than a stand mixer, please give it a rest.
What does SWPL stand for?
And - you, Brickley?
I have cooked in the USA. Minnesota I think. Last time was in 2000.
Unlike many other bean patties, in falafel the beans are not cooked prior to use. Instead they are soaked, possibly skinned, then ground with the addition of a small quantity of onion, parsley, spices (including cumin), and bicarbonate of soda, and deep fried at a high temperature.
I've done it two or three times, but it is a bit of a palaver, and you really should have a good deep frier, which I don't. But you're not going to get falafel that look anything like the ones on the page by frying your dry hummus.
It can be doubted whether or not that line of reasoning is particularly convincing.
The problem is your recipe, not the difficulty in making falafel. If you follow some jumped wannabe recipe then you wear the cost. I've made dry humus and fried it. It doesn't taste like falafel from a fancy restaurant or some a priori conception I have of falafel. It tastes like falafel I've made myself. It tastes good.
Your argument is a bit like saying, I want to learn how to play pick-up-sticks but the instructions say I have to use my butt cheeks. Memo: you don't have to use your butt cheeks just because the instructions say so.
Since I discovered the fresh pita at La Cigale, I'll buy those and the fresh hummus and some rocket, make a yoghurt dressing, and fry up some Lisa's falafel mix from the supermarket (three for $10 at the Food Show!). for lunch. Yum I confess, I'm a lot more focused on the result than in holding myself to a culinary code of conduct in getting there,
Enter Pollan's arguments. You're buying into a false idea. Lisa tells you: it's too difficult. Don't do it. Use me. I'm a bit dear comparatively but I answer so many questions.
It's not a culinary code of conduct but more an argument that pre-prepared food does not actually save time, is more expensive and usually is worse for your health.
I appreciate your sincerity in what you do, but it's a must-make-by-hand conception of cooking that was born when womenfolk had all day to do it -- and it never really existed in this country (or in Britain, for that matter), where our grandmothers boiled most things to death, and our mothers welcomed the new wave of instant foods in the 60s. I think a happy medium is possible now.
What do I do? I'm not saying "must made by hand". I'm simply arguing making by hand is better, cheaper and better for you.
My parnter and I cook like this all the time. We both work full time and are generally extremely busy. We don't have all day and neither of us is "women folk".
And my grandmother made some kick ass Scots food that probably died with her.
And I'd strongly debate the claim about expense. I can make a beef rendang, but most of the time it's much quicker, easier and cheaper to use a paste from the local Asian supermarket (the Brahm's brand), cook it down, and put fresh stuff around it on the plate.
That isn't persuasive either. You're arguing from the specific to the general. I'm saying, in general, pre-pre stuff is more expensive. Sure, a redang paste might be cheaper but that doesn't detract from what I'm saying.
Funny, you should talk about expense again, too, because what bothered me most about your post was your tongue-in-cheek comment about the "recession". Funny, factory workers in Gisborne don't go to the Food Show? Who knew?
After hours, I'll often do hobbies too, but making/preparing food just isn't one of them.
And right there is the entire problem. Preparing food isn't a hobby and the fact that it is seen as one is unfortuante and might explain why so many people are fat and unhealthy.
Oh, I don't know that it's terribly inconsistent. Preparing foods yourself using fresh ingredients is a fairly demonstrable way to eat better. As for the classist thing, it's complicated: for instance Italian cuisine is certainly popular with the New Zealand middle class, but it's working class food in its origin, still very cheap and not terribly difficult to prepare. Indian friends tell me that the same applies to their culinary traditions.
Which is not to say that I agree with Brickley, but.It sounds as if you agree with me a bit.
I don't know how it could be classist. The best cuisine is usually more refined because it was derived from cheap ingredients that needed inventive ways to make themselves yummy. Food is awesomely class free if you make it yourself. If anything is classist, it's people arguing that foodlike stuff is food.
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Er, you were talking about making dhal for lunch.
Why the "er"? I was only talking about making dhal at all. I didn't realise our arguments were focused on a midday repast.
Er, right. "Chemical by-product" ... have you ever actually read the labels? Tried the sauces? You may find they contain fewer "chemical by-products" (ie: none) than the bread you make your sandwiches with.
Am I to assume that, say, curry paste is unsound too?
There's that "er" again. Why? I do read the labels. I don't try the sauces because paying that much for something I can make myself, if not more simply without the froo froo ingedients, is offensive.
Curry paste probably is unsound although I confess I'm busted on that one.
I'm puzzled: what counts as "actually food"? You seem to have ruled out sauces and seasonings. Are preserves acceptable to you?
Food is not stuff that comes industrial prepared in a bottle for a your own ostensible convenience. Sauces? Ones I make myself from real ingredients = food. Seasonings? Ditto.
Yes, I can make sandwiches too. But on a winter's day, being able to grab some dhal soup off the shelf is nice too.
Ok, sure. But that isn't really a rejoinder.
Of course. Lord forbid you should deign to taste it. You might like it.
I'm sure I would like it. I like almost everything. That doesn't mean that it isn't crap, though.
That isn't falafel.
Would you like to call a friend on that one?
Does anyone else like Annabelle White's Food Detective column in the Star Times magazine? I'm interested in food products (that's why I like the Food Show) and I enjoy her assessment of what's worthwhile and what's rubbish.
She had an odd piece the other week which opened with a concession that Montreal/New York bagels are the best but then still rated the ones here without mentioning that they're shite and go for like a dollar each.
It's one of those things to read quickly while you're taking a dump and then forget about it. It's kind of hypnotically distracting. Like reading the phone book or the back of a tube of tooth paste.
Now, Richard Till. Il est le bonhomme.
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Brickley, that's bullshit. It's a show for food products, but there are also cooking classes throughout, and it is certainly not all corporate. One of the things I really enjoy is the chance to talk to people about their own products. People like Noel, and the Gringo Killer lady, who run their own stalls, or the people from the wineries.
You're right. No corporate interests there to speak of.
And what does a cooking class have to do with it? Those are the weirdest things ever.
Read Pollan. His arguments are highly persuasive.
By and large it is just a corporate jamboree. Ask those small artisans if the show is really worth their while and then ask the corporate union busting monsters at Progressives what they think. Record profits this year for them, I hear.
If you can cook dahl in 10 minutes, good luck to you. I've never managed it before. But for goodness sake, I'm talking about a reasonably healthy lunch during the working day. I'm not about to down tools and start chopping onions and washing lentils.
Working day? I bring homemade sandwiches and fruit to work. Anything prepared from home is from scratch and didn't take long to make. Down tools? Chopping onions? What are you on about?
And if microwaves are so evil, tip it out and heat it in a pot. You're not making the dhal in the microwave.
I never said microwaves were evil. Au contraire. They're choice. Using one to cook porridge or dahl though is a culinary hate crime of the highest order.
More hyperbole! I'm sure you're the virtuous kind who makes absolutely every sauce and shaken seasoning from scratch every single time. I'm not -- although I usually grind whole spices with a mortar and pestle if I'm making a curry from scratch.
I also feel no guilt at all about cooking up some vegetables and free-range chicken in a pre-made curry sauce after a long day. (BTW, the Satya restaurant people had some nice dry masala mixes at the show.)
I wasn't being hyperbolic, Russell. I don't buy those sauces because they're filled with tasteless crap. And I'm not the virtuous one but the missus sure is and I get a contact high off her virtuosity.
Why you would bother buying a free range chicken (provided it is free range and not simply presented with some grass in which it shows no interest) and then cover it in chemical by-product is even more odd. Suit yourself, though.
Go on. Tell me you actually do this for your lunch every day.
No, I eat sandwiches and fruit for lunch.
I've found that the hummus you get at the supermarket is indistinguishable from the fresh made stuff and considerably cheaper unless you consume industrial quantities of the stuff, and so on.
Which brand? How much cheaper? Bought hummus tastes like bought hummus.
I am an excellent cook. (I really am. It's one of my few talents.) But anyone giving me shit for my Hubbards Golden Sunrise porridge sachets? Can bite me. Like I need to wake up 15 minutes earlier to add linseeds and slivered almonds to my rolled oats, and then leave a grotty pot waiting for me at the end of the day. More time in bed is my priority, so the sachets win. I imagine most people are able to decide for themselves where the tradeoff line is drawn without being told they're in thrall to the global food industry.
Soak the pot. Takes 20 seconds to clean at the end of the day. You wanna have bourgeois fluff fluff porridge then go ahead.
Oh dear, Brickley. Who done got up your arse? The food show is fantastic, in my VHO, because you get to see alot of smaller artisan outfits you may not normally. I discovered Aromatics and the St Andrew's Lime people amongst others. And then, what I did, when I was down in the Hawkes Bay one Xmas was to go around all the different places and came back with a car full of yummy yum yums. I love supporting NZ made products and that's what the food show is good for, for me. For you, maybe not so much.
What she said. After the gym at 6 in the morning, I come straight to work and have my porridge. I really don't want to be washing pots at work quite frankly.
I like supporting local products as well provided they are actually food. I was recently in the Hawke's Bay and did much the same.
No one likes washing pots. Food should be easy and cost free. We just use a pot once and then throw it away. Have you tried that?
OTOH, the Taste of India Dhal Soup (have I been misspelling that?) is $2.50 a can at the local Mad Butcher, and really rather nice.
I'll have to take your word for it.
Hummus ain't so bad -- but falafel ...
The sense of achievement is nice, but you tend to think it might be easier next time to let Lisa do it for you.
Make a dry hummus. Fry it in wee patties.
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What kind of recipe are you using? My standard dahl recipe includes an injunction to simmer over a low heat for about an hour. I wouldn't have thought the lentils would cook through enough in 20 minutes.
It depends on the type of pulses that one uses. Even if does take as much as an hour, you can have that on while you do other things in the evening and have it ready for the next day. Making dahl doesn't require much attention to detail.
Really? You must be soaking it a while first. What sort of dahl are we talking here? (Though agreed re: the wrongness of microwave porridge/dahl/etcetera.)
I'm glad we're agreed. Making naturally convenient food more convenient is just too creepy for me. You can soak them like chick peas. But I think the lighter yellow or pinkish pulses cook away more quickly. Those are the ones I grab and they cook into a paste pretty fast.