Posts by Ian MacKay
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Danielle: Yes I got that. But would you (anyone) never go further than throw a teaspoon? Not to say it is OK before you suggest that it is.(I have by the way never hit a woman in spite of having been attacked physically/verbally but did sometimes smack my kids. Shame)
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Your implication that we're all capable of doing what Veitch did is not only disturbing: it's minimising the nature of the crime.
Danielle: It would be naive to dispute that all people are ultimately capable of hitting out to a lesser or greater degree. Can you not imagine that any person in extremis would not hit out? I would if to defend my wife or children. If so the provocation and response becomes a matter of degree.
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This thread is getting so weirdly apologist for this dude.
Danielle: There seems to be some confusion. I don't know anyone who is an apologist for violence against people. I am not. What concerns me is the intensity of the blame. In fact the real issues : (right to remain silent, choice of making a complaint or not, media trials, is there a difference between repeat offenders and a one-off, provocation etc,) would not have been aired on this blog if every one saw it as slam dunk. Guilty. Throw the book at him. You could have written your decision and saved everyone the trouble of thinking about the issues because everyone would agree with you. All those in favour of Guilty say Aye. Unanimous. Close Blog. Go and have a cup of...
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Sacha: "do tell". Actually the first word in Russell's original post was "If". That is what started my train of thought yesterday. What if this is not basically a true account? Thus I kept on looking for some clear facts that I could believe rather than just trusting. I do believe that on balance that terrible things did happen. But I dislike the way that supposition becomes stated as though it were fact. And am really interested in the debates from all sides. Stimulating apart from the horror of hurt.
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Yamis
On the issue of speculation it's a bit hard in this case as we have a 'respected' media outlet giving reasonably details errr... details while Veitch has said that not all the things being reported are correct.....
Well said Yamis and thanks for the connection to the Rugby accusations, by the "reliable media."
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Clearly, for the sake of the debate, a Court case would be well worth it. And yes of course concern and sympathy goes to the victim of any attack. A pity that our society is so intent on violence being an answer to problems, frustrations etc. So ?
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And I'd like to hear more about what is driving that effort, from those who have made it.
Sacha: The same thought occurred to me. Except it is the other way round. (It is not a drive to defend the bloke. It is the need to be fair as a society.) What drives the more extreme outrages? Why add extreme language in describing the alleged event? What drives the attackers?
Goodnight. -
OK. Let the Dom Post article be an honest report based on credible witness. Should the lack of a denial in a public statement automatically assume you must be guilty? I accuse you. You did not deny it. Therefore you are guilty. Mmm. (The issue is the interesting bit. Not the person.)
I quit. -
Shep: Not me. I have never taught English to anyone, except my sons of course.
Danielle:If we all followed your terrifyingly stringent standards for facts and evidence before discussing any issues, Ian, I think we might end up shutting down PA System altogether...
All in favour of discussing issues and ideas and being wrong at times. But when a person is condemned without trial I, think that it is a form of bullying. Are you suggesting that PA is run on our not attempting to use facts as a basis for opinions? Sounds a bit fanciful to me.
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But Andrew, his public confession described "losing it". The detail was offered by media. It may be true and he may be a pocket sized thug. But the judgements and not on known facts. Perhaps he slapped her and she stepped back and fell onto the corner of the dressing table. Awful. Wrong but possible and not necessarily a savage beating. I very anti-violence, antismacking etc. but....