Posts by Logan O'Callahan
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NZ European is basically just “New Zealander of European decent”
Which is ancestry, not ethnicity. And if that's the data Stats want then that's what they should ask.
Back when Tze Ming made her stand I think my question was whether you could have no ethnicity. I still think that's a valid option.
The problem with Pakeha is that the definitions are contradictory, and only some of them convey the meaning that fits (mentally) for me.
I'm not interested in bagging TM and totally respect her opinions. She comes at this from her own perspective. Perhaps she doesn't/didn't understand why people want to rid themselves of the "European" tag.
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How is it a straw man?
Because she first defines the thing that she wants to attack, in a way that she can attack, and then attacks it?
None of the reasons *I* want to call myself a New Zealander have anything to do with the cliche that Tze Ming put forward.
Pakeha might be the right word. But the meaning is too uncertain. From that article, this perhaps expresses my perspective better than I have managed:
"Is it not true that we "become indigenous to New Zealand at the point where our focus of identity and commitment shifts to New Zealand, and away from our countries and cultures of origin" (King, 1999, p235)."
Not sure how my comment on rugby is a straw man, or racist. The intent was only to point out that rugby is enjoyed fanatically, to play and watch, across a pretty wide spectrum of NZ society; wherever it might have come from. Maybe someone can enlighten me?
And I apologise for the continuing thread drift. Drawing focus away from this ridiculous referendum was not my intention. I will be voting yes, and unlike certain Act MP, I will actually understand what that means.
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What do you mean by illiteracy, Logan, and who's illiteracy?
Probably mine. Perhaps illiteracy is the wrong word. Maybe you'd call it apathy?
My father, and his father are/were pretty deeply connected to the Auckland area. They were comfortable enough with their own place here not to tie their place in the world to the origins of that root of the family.
And for me, that's where I see the clear break starting.
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Also, ethnicity implies a group with an established common heritage. I don't believe that any post-1600 colonial people have had long enough to really reach that. Maybe Hispanic people, though that gets disputed.
Why? Time moves much faster now. We migrate faster, fight faster, communicate faster and integrate faster. If your personal history only goes back two generations, then that's your heritage.
Tze Ming:
I mean, hello, this is English we're using here.
Haven't you heard our esteemed leader speak, That's not English.
More seriously, most of us adopt and try to respect the Maori additions that make a unique New Zealand language. Go sailing in New Zealand and look at the place names, the birds the trees.
Was the English language invented in New Zealand? Was rugby?
Maori and pacific island populations a mainstay of our rugby.
Were lamb roasts, cattle and sheep farming, eating copious amounts of dairy products, and gathering with your family at Christmas around a pinus radiata? Where do meringues come from, and why did anyone care about Anna Pavlova to start with?
I'm no fan of the pav. But I like my puha, kumara and fish, I like the bush and the birds and the sea. And I prefer sailing in my holidays to christmas dinner.
Who forged this postcolonial nation by fighting fascists in Europe? Um... not my family.
Last I looked, the fight against fascism also covered Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Phillipines, China...., and NZ forces included a pretty large non-european element that still defines alot of the history of the New Zealand involvement in the wars.
If this is 'New Zealand' ethnicity, it is a placeholder for 'New Zealand European/Pakeha ethnicity' - and I'll never be one of them (especially the dairy products and meringue bit).
If in doubt, set up a straw man and knock it down.
Tze Ming is of course, entitled to her ethnicity. Why does she feel she has to define mine?
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"the problem with `New Zealander' is that denying the use of the term `New Zealander' to people in New Zealand with full citizenship is pretty dodgy."
I hadn't looked at it that way. Perhaps we should use the phoentic "Nu Z'landa" and leave the proper pronunciation to mean the nationality.
To be honest I might have put "Kiwi", but I can't remember.
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Islander
just how many are "many generations"
Not enough for you. On one side not much at all, on the other the records disappear in a mist of illiteracy.
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What should they do to attract people on a sunday afternoon:
http://media.travstar.com.au/dbimg/rg_i_1212.jpg
What about a park and lagoon pool like the Cairns esplanade.
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I saw some unpublished analysis that showed a very high correlation between answering "New Zealander" and experiencing redness of the neck.
I don't recall seeing a "redneck" tick box on the form...
I am the product of many generations in New Zealand,and am an atheist. I feel no tie to Europe. I identify myself as a person of New Zealand - as a place, not as a nation. I am a product of the culture, the land and the sea, and the opportunities that exist here.
Pakeha might be the appropriate Maori word. But I don't know well enough what it means, and I'm not keen that any ethnic group should be forced to be indentified by someone else's label.
If the stats people crunch my "New Zealander" as a white man, that doesn't offend me. But the suggestion that people answered that way because they are rednecks does.
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you will stand and watch
but summer brings need for swim
two men died trying -
I want a beach.
Floating.
With sand. Or without sand.
On the end of the wharf.A swim in the tide.
At lunchtime.
That would be cool.
And unique.