Posts by insider outsider
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I only know about that Taupo one. There was one reported in Auckland of an activist but that related to an aggravated robbery suspect who gave it as his address. I'd expect raids to go on for days anyway for anything this big. Seems to for other national events like drugs and gang ones. This seems to have been very tightly coordinated overall.
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McCully in his newsletter says the section of the Act that the SG criticised was put in specifically at the Greens' insistence (ok he would say that ) ... but add that to your conspiracy theories
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Che
problem with your theory (or hypothesis), weren;t the raids pretty much done and dusted on the one day? I don't recall them going on for days and there being an "ever widening circle' of warrants.
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My dictionary says part of theory's meaning is "an explanation of...anything" "speculation; a hypothesis " and hypothosis as "supposition; conjecture"
ie you were safe using them either way as we got your drift.
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Only if it's scientific surely?
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Steve
Broad said experience showed you don't wait, you move as early as you can, which I interpret as being as soon as ayou have enough facts to prove a case, and that he thought you did not need specific 'targets' to prove an offence under the TSA.
I wonder therefore if they had moved from chanting 'bring on the revolution brother ' to 'here's how we bring on the revolution' or similar.
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Danyl
did hundreds of police stand at a road block and force individuals out of a car and photograph them?
I think there is a lot of faux outrage and trauma being generated and lack of proportion over the 'suffering' felt, given what was thought to be going on.
If I thought there were a bunch of people running around with guns and bombs in my suburb, I would expect the cops to be there in force and equipped to deal with it, I would expect them to have roadblocks and I would expect them to do all they could within the law to prevent those people getting away, and I would expect that most in my community would co-operate and accept that a short term inconvenience and even a little fear was a reasonable price to pay. Even if the ones with the guns were my neighbours.
It seems in Ruatoki expectations are a bit different.
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Danyl
No I think it perhaps reflected their perception of the risk at each venue. AS far as I know there have not been accusations of people running around central Park and Brooklyn Hill setting off napalm and firing guns. Given they have been watching for a year, they probably had a fair idea where the main risks were, but their warrants were likely generalised.
From memory this is not the first time police have stopped and photgraphed people leaving an area where an investigation is going on. It's also not the first time they have blocked a road and checked vehicles going in and out of a place where an action is on. I don't recall those affected innocent people calling for state funded counsellors and crying racism and oppression.
Hell I remember being stopped by a cop on anniversary weekend who stood in the middle of Otaki main street with half of Wellington backed up on SH1 with the only motive being to check everyone going through town for out of date WOFs. I was deeply peeved at his wasting of my and other's time for something I hadn't done - no reasonable cause. I never got counselling even though it was quite scary for the kids to face the prospect of me being given a stern talking to. And it was obvious he was blockading the main route out of the innocent city of wellington, where butter wouldn;t melt in our mouths. In fact, now I think of it, it;s symptomatic of the targeted assault on middle class wellingtonian values by this govt.
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Danyl
That argument was used in the police rape trials and didn't work. The judiciary have a lot of faith in the ability of juries to use their heads and do their job properly, and the research backs that faith.
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I/S
What Broad said was that their advice was that the intent of the law appeared to want to nip such planning in the bud before they got to the specific planning/conspiracy stage, as it had been shown overseas that allowing these things to fester to the stage of detailed plans was a dangerous path to go down. Being allowed to move early would discourage people being foolish moving to downright criminal.
He wasn't talking about preventing "thought crimes" but preventing actions and planning that could easily and quickly move from generic to specific. I'd infer that he means people doing general training for events without a specific target should be able to be stopped. ie allowing people to learn how to blow up power lines, buses or identify assassination targets, is generally not a good thing to allow to go on, and it shouldn't have to wait until they have targeted a specific power line or person or bus route before action is taken to stop them.