Yellow Peril by Tze Ming Mok

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Yellow Peril: Are you gonna liberate us girls from male, white, corporate oppression?

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  • steven crawford,

    Please note the link I provided is not particularly useful unless you are completely dissatisfied or ashamed with your own sexuality.

    The point is, things are a little bit more complicated than X and Y or Black And White.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4442 posts Report Reply

  • Grant McDougall,

    a national magazine once held in high esteem by the bourgeois-intellectual set (before we were all lobotomised by interest rates and pinot noir, and the likes of Steve Braunias and Ian Wedde suddenly became far too difficult for us to understand).

    Slightly off-topic I realise, but said magazine really has turned to custard since Pamela Stirling took over, hasn't it? The reviews and some columns are still ok, but the features are mediocre.

    If they run one more cover with the words "How to improve / get more from / increase..." I'll bloody well scream.

    Why don't they just change their name to Self-Help Weekly and be done with it?

    Also, Sonic Youth in Beijing! Excellent!

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2006 • 760 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    but said magazine really has turned to custard since Pamela Stirling took over, hasn't it?

    Here's the wretched thing - I keep on buying it! Maybe it's designed to appeal to middle aged working women with children.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Sorry maybe it is that bland

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4442 posts Report Reply

  • Span .,

    Ok, so we've pretty much ruled out Kiwiblog as a welcoming and pleasant place to comment, but there are other nz pol blogs out there too. I don't comment on Kiwiblog really, particularly once a thread is over about 15 comments. That's usually all it takes to jump the shark.

    I spend quite a lot of time though at No Right Turn, Capitalism Bad, I See Red, Joe Hendren and others who would all benefit from more women commenting.

    PA System is great, I just wish some of the rest of the blogosphere would benefit from more of the great commenters here. What could other pol blogs do to be more attractive to you, or is PA System really all you want/need? You can always do both!

    Above all though, you should be doing what you want to do, not what I want you to do. I guess I'm just too excitable when faced with lots of intelligent articulate women who can say cool stuff.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 112 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    It might be helpful to realize that these calculations have know scientific foundation.

    No need to feed that line to the Genie - 100% bloke.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    Fear of a female interwebs

    This will be my 276th comment posted on PA System. I don't know for sure, but I suspect most of the comments I've made have been more on social rather than political topics (though sometimes there are overlaps).

    Politics and sports are two things that I have very little interest in, but I can, if I try, find an in to these topics via some sort of social connection.

    When I first got on the interwebs back in '95, I don't remember it being male-dominated. There always seemed to be 50-50 mix of the sexes (either that or women were smaller in numbers but louder).

    There was also the old school journal girls (shout out to 2 Joanna!). It seemed that in the pre-blog days, most people who kept interesting personal websites were female (or gay guys). There were guys out there who kept websites, but very few were writing frequently-updated interesting ones.

    Now there seem to be more guys out there writing stuff, and stuff that's interesting and worth reading.

    But there are also plenty of arseholes out there who have an opinion and would like you to be aware of it, whether it's about how awful George Bush is or how awful American Idol is.

    If the 'net - our kool thing - becomes spoiled by male, white corporate oppressors, it's not the end of the world. It just means that 'us girls' need to work a little harder. And we can take Chuck D's advice from that awesome song and tell it like it is.

    Fear, baby

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Too right

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4442 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    i comment on NRT, span and this. mostly this, and rarely about politics. i'd like to talk about say, unions with span, but simply cannot. (work)

    oh, and i can vouch for deborah! loved that buzz bar by the way. "theatre" needs to be yelled in more work meetings...

    i think more guys comment here because that's russell's community of interest. and the net is alllll about community.

    i don't read or comment on chickenhawk sites or rwdb because i don't associate with those people in real life.

    so... what we have here is a site with usual, liberal, left-leaning guys chatting. and i'd like to think that women are more than welcome to chime in, exactly the same as they would be if we were out socially.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    so... what we have here is a site with usual, liberal, left-leaning guys chatting. and i'd like to think that women are more than welcome to chime in, exactly the same as they would be if we were out socially.

    Heh, System reminds me of hanging out in the Lower Common Room at varsity: very bright, mostly left-leaning people, interspersing high-level discourse with total and utter bollocks. That too was a group where the ratio was about 2:1 male to female. Rest assured the only scaring-off of females was done by females: the straight guys were desperate for more chickies.

    I read what's worth reading regardless of who wrote it, and I have a network of sites I check daily. Pol blogs I only comment here, Span, and NRT: that's because the level of discourse is civil and intelligent, and especially here, witty. I feel perfectly welcome to chime in. Of course, I also feel complimented rather than oppressed when people whistle at me.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Helen Clark (hooray), in her Friday interview with Jim Mora (boo) on Radio NZ National (hooray, boo), said that she reads Public Address. So there's at least one female lurker you can reach by posting here.

    And I suspect there are a lot of men like me that read Tze Ming's stuff and nod a lot, without ever bothering to type our agreement, admiration even. It doesn't exactly make up for the creeps out there, but, anyway, here's a nod for you.

    My avatar is my byline photo, an exact likeness.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Slightly off-topic I realise, but said magazine really has turned to custard since Pamela Stirling took over, hasn't it?

    [...]

    Why don't they just change their name to Self-Help Weekly and be done with it?.

    I know what you mean

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    And I suspect there are a lot of men like me that read Tze Ming's stuff and nod a lot, without ever bothering to type our agreement, admiration even. It doesn't exactly make up for the creeps out there, but, anyway, here's a nod for you.
    My avatar is my byline photo, an exact likeness.

    I take it you are not a silly "white boy" then. I personally feel deeply offended by some of Tze Ming's generalizations. and unfortunately I am suffering a bit CCD as a result. But regrettably I also have to agree with her on some levels.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4442 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    I'm happy to be labelled a white boy - one's a fact, the other gives me back a couple of decades I thought I'd lost.

    But seriously, I see no reason to be offended by Tze Ming's piece. And any throwaway jibes are absolutely nothing - nothing at all - compared with the misogyny and bigotry spewed out in various NZ forums on the net every bloody day. You'd have to be a saint not to feel the occasional urge to snip off a few pink balls in response. If I spent any more time on Kiwiblog (a habit I've now happily dropped) I'd be out there with the scissors myself.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • reece palmer,

    I particularly remember one peice written about wannabe gangsters in freemans bay, rippingly funny retort that was. If I might venture an answer to the question posed in the title of this one, no I'm not going to free you, because freedom in whatever form it takes or is realised is formed in your own mind so you're just going to have to keep on freeing yourself, doing bloody well so far, but who am I to judge?

    the terraces • Since Nov 2006 • 298 posts Report Reply

  • reece palmer,

    I also remember an egg flying out of the lower common rooms at a great rate of knots towards the bespoke suited Mr Banks.
    Legend arm that.

    the terraces • Since Nov 2006 • 298 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Yes I agree that there are allot of racist sexist bigots out there. I don't go there because of it. And I probably am overreacting a little, to what are relatively minor put downs of an entire demographic. But I think it is unacceptable none the less. It would be unacceptable to make cynical jokes about any other group of people based on race or gender on this forum.

    This is not the rest of the internet. That is why I chose to interact here. I was introduced to the concept of sexual and racial equality well over thirty years ago. I have spent my life practicing these principles. using statements like "White boys playground" is contemptuous of the very concept of sexual and racial equality that is so prevalent here at public address. I don't except being tarred with the same brush that has been applied 'The White Male Corporate Oppressors"

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4442 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    O thats right we probably deserve a bit of a dumping on. stiff upper lip hay what.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4442 posts Report Reply

  • Tze Ming Mok,

    If I might venture an answer to the question posed in the title of this one, no I'm not going to free you

    Good lord, not another one too young to remember Goo. Creak. Creak. Somebody bring me my cane.

    Steven: you are obviously rather upset, and so perhaps have not noticed that this thread and the post was obviously dedicated to the women of PA being able to talk about their experiences of the internet. I think it's sad that your repeated appearances were so focused on some perceived slight to yourself, and had no substantial contribution to the wider issue. Ultimately, dude, this post wasn't about you; it was about us. I hope you can get over it.

    To address your concerns, since you have dedicated so much time and energy to getting one, and I have accepted by now that you are not really a troll:

    I don't see what's so offensive, or incorrect, about observing that comments threads on any political blog from the West (apart from dedicated feminist sites or dedicated ethnic minority sites) are generally dominated by white males.

    If you are white, it is odd that you are offended by the term 'white', although I wouldn't discount the possibility. There's no way I can stop calling white people white though - perhaps you prefer 'Caucasian' or 'of European descent', but I think that's clumsy.

    If you are offended by the term 'boy', it is odd that you don't feel offended on the behalf of women by my (and the other female commentators, and Kim Gordon's) use of the word 'girls' to describe ourselves.

    If you are offended that the hallowed ground of the PA System was compared to a playground, this is pretty damn precious, laughably so. We talk of parliament as a kindergarten all the time, do we not? Is a blogsite as revered as our legislative chamber? Are PA System participants never childish, or, alternately, are they really that up-themselves and self-congratulatory that they would be wounded at the very suggestion that they might be? I don't think so.

    SarfBank, Lunnin' • Since Nov 2006 • 154 posts Report Reply

  • Sue,

    maybe more guys comment on PA because there are more guys writing for PA. Plus the women who blog on PA write infrequently.
    Does in PAs case two plus two equall a gender imbalance?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 527 posts Report Reply

  • Nobody Important,

    A regular poster told me on another PA thread that they'd always wondered if my breasts were real. I was quite taken aback by that ... not what I expected here on PA. It was more the way it was casually slipped into a broader comment about something else. But I guess because of my choice of Avatar I was asking for it, right?

    BTW: According to Gender Genie I am a male, if that helps, but so is Tze Ming Mok (I entered her blog) so I guess it doesn't. (Gee, I didn't realise that 'what' and 'are' were masculine words...)

    Maybe Robyn, Joanna, Emma, Deborah, Jackie and Anjum could register again under fake names, and create the illusion of having doubled the number of regular female commentors. You go girls!

    Hmmm, I wonder why RB hasn't resonded to that suggestion?

    expat • Since Mar 2007 • 319 posts Report Reply

  • Nobody Important,

    mmm, I wonder why RB hasn't responded to that suggestion?

    (damn, and I did use the preview button) (it must be late)

    expat • Since Mar 2007 • 319 posts Report Reply

  • webweaver,

    Although I am much more of a lurker here than a poster (thus far) I've found Public Address to be far and away the most civilised and intelligent political community here in Enzed. You're "my kind of people" and I spend quite a lot of time here in the shadows.

    The only reason I don't post more is that, as a linear thread rather than a nested one, I often find the conversation has shifted direction by the time I read a post I'd like to respond to - and by then it's too late to respond.

    I spend a lot of time at Daily Kos - and unlike Tze Ming Mok, I've decided that it's not dead to me. I still find it a great source of news, debate and information about American politics (about which I have a slightly unhealthy obsession). There are so many great frontpagers and diarists on DKos, that I feel I can ignore Kos's occasional idiotic statements, and just appreciate the others. I don't post much there either, but boy, do I lurk!

    The reason why you won't find me anywhere near Kiwiblog and the like is that, on the rare occasion I've visited, it seems to be populated entirely by bigoted right-wing jerks, and as I wouldn't pass the time of day with any of them in RL, I'm certainly not going to waste my online time on them.

    Although it's not obvious from my screenname, I am a girl, and I am also a blogger. I wrote a big piece on Kathy Sierra, misogyny on the web, and the Blogger's Code of Conduct when Kos first made his stoopid comments, and I've just written a post for Take Back the Blog!, if anyone's interested in reading them.

    I was surprised at how hard I found the Take Back the Blog! post to write, actually. I am fortunate in never having been subject to online harrassment in any of my online communities over the years, and never on my blog either. But I couldn't help worrying that by simply putting that fact out there on my blog I would be tempting fate, or worse.

    And, like other women here, I'm not sure what I can do about that, aside from not blogging any more. And I don't want to do that. No way!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 332 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    What are the women doing instead of commenting on blogsites?

    I like the idea that perhaps girls are doing something better; but I get hung up on my own experience of some girls still lacking the confidence to formulate an opinion on an issue or missing the confidence to express it in public. My current intern at work is gradually learning that I do want to hear what she thinks and what she has learned. But it has taken 6 weeks to get this far. SWMBO on the other hand ends up doing far more work than she needs to as an academic, because she seems to lack the confidence to go with what is obvious at times. Society does something cruel and unfair to girls in this respect and I’m quite sure it makes them hesitate at the return key sometimes.

    Thanks Span…….

    In my typical bloke way I had to test the gender genie to the extreme; it passed with flying colours. As far as my academic writing is concerned I’m very Masculine. My blogging on the other hand is somewhat less so. Kind of good news, but perhaps the best news of all is that it made me stop and think about the way in which I write my teaching materials and whether they are more difficult to access by virtue of being written in a more bloke style. The difficulty is getting a bloke who can barely write in comprehensible language to figure out rules that would neutralise the educational materials he produces.

    {disclaimer – I am not seeking to defend this guy and haven’t read all the posts on this.}The Moulitskas thing interests me because it reflects blokes’ ability to miss the frame of reference and consequently fail the empathy test. Blokes grow up with threats of violence and largely learn to ignore them from an early age. For reasons that I could guess at invloving the need to protect unborn offspring females/girls/other don’t….ever learn to ignore threats in the same way. I would agree that this still doesn’t explain why apparently more abuse is directed towards female bloggers. But then again I don’t get why blokes want to do this in the first place.

    BTW: by all means call me white boy if you must, but I prefer bloke.

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    I don't see what's so offensive, or incorrect, about observing that comments threads on any political blog from the West (apart from dedicated feminist sites or dedicated ethnic minority sites) are generally dominated by white males.

    If you are white, it is odd that you are offended by the term 'white', although I wouldn't discount the possibility. There's no way I can stop calling white people white though - perhaps you prefer 'Caucasian' or 'of European descent', but I think that's clumsy.

    If you are offended by the term 'boy', it is odd that you don't feel offended on the behalf of women by my (and the other female commentators, and Kim Gordon's) use of the word 'girls' to describe ourselves.

    Steven's right to register his distaste - if a right wing opinionist made generalisations about 'yellow gals' (or whatever) you'd be at the head of the mob with a pitchfork and noose, and I doubt you'd be sympathetic to any protests that the semiotics of the racebaiting were technically correct.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

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