Speaker: Towards a realistic drug policy
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and not 5km a gang house was breaking the law too. Not the issue.
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Hey, we halved our homocide rate! You're killing me with statistics, I'll be on it tomorrow :)
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The issues are,
1. are confrontations and idle threats a successful means of improving the atmos? Based on the flurry of words I heard after the police drove off, no.
2. Is the law being adhered to? The individual breaking the law being a New Zealand resident, so also no.
3. Why would the New Zealander not be respecting authority? See 1.
The bin skull tasted bitter, despite the original contents being a lager.
(sorry about the reemergence of the pseudonym Mr Taslov, I thought he was dead and buried but this PC had other ideas.)
But anyway, just a suggestion, WRC on the horizon, and not quite enough space in the cells IMO, but fines could go a ways towards building more prisons.
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Just so we know what we're on about, the Auckland CBD 24-hour liquor ban boundaries are here.
It appears you can actually have a beer with with your fish and chips at one part of the waterfront, and Victoria Park is under a the same 10pm to 8am liquor ban as most other parks and reserves.
I was agin the daytime liquor ban in Albert Park, when the CBD ban boundaries were announced, and remain of that view, but in general the 24-hour street ban has been a good thing.
It' worth noting that it's only an offence to "knowingly" breach the ban, and the police are expected to advise people of the law and invite them to tip out their drink. Anything more is cops being dicks. It's not an offence to simply be taking your booze somewhere else to drink it.
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Hey, we halved our homocide rate! You're killing me with statistics, I'll be on it tomorrow :)
Fair call. Wellington, that's where they do the murderin', from memory.
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It' worth noting that it's only an offence to "knowingly" breach the ban, and the police are expected to advise people of the law and invite them to tip out their drink. Anything more is cops being dicks. It's not an offence to simply be taking your booze somewhere else to drink it.
That's a fair swag Russell, but it's largely urban and in my opinion entirely reasonable. Also. and it shames me to say it but generally speaking, from experience, the Auckland police seem to be just that little less into the power trip than their Chch counterparts. More real work to do I guess.
Part of the Chch ban is within the 4 aves, So if you're coming south from one of the northern corners on foot, that's a fair way to hike before even coming within spitting distance of an on license. A good 15 minute walk without a drink, whilst encouraging people not to drink and drive. That's a lot of suburban streets to police for a pretty benign arrestable offense. I'm trying to look through the fine print of the bylaws now to see if the journey (with open vessels) could be legally made boating down the Avon, but suffering PDF issues.
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Chris I could draw you a Pub Crawl if you give me A & Z. But half of PAS could do the same.
Although I known a few who have, I've never been done for lack of a cycle helmet. -
A good 15 minute walk without a drink, whilst encouraging people not to drink and drive.
Really? I just never think about walking along the street drinking.
I'm trying to look through the fine print of the bylaws now to see if the journey (with open vessels) could be legally made boating down the Avon, but suffering PDF issues.
I can only applaud your sense of enterprise, sir.
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Thanks Russell.
Really? I just never think about walking along the street drinking.
maybe I'm a hooligan. old habit.
Chris I could draw you a Pub Crawl
Or perhaps we could just do one, on intravenous tequila
I've never been done for lack of a cycle helmet.
Same, just ze warning!
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Chris, I think you have a problem.
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I think in Paris and most other countries in Continental Europe, they might have alcohol bans but don't bother to enforce them (just as you can drive at 160kmh all day on a French motorway and never get a ticket - they just don't bother with many patrols).
Apart from infringing on the rights of people to have a drink in public without annoying others (which I and many others would like to do), there is another problem with using the police for "social control". Each group that wants to do something on the banned list is brought into conflict with authority (primarily the police).
Some of these intersecting groups are:
- drug users
- car enthusiasts
- people wanting to drink outside (including yes, the underage)
- visible ethnic minorities
- political demonstratorsAdd those together, and you've got a pretty large group of people with a negative experience of authority. That isn't a good thing really.
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Hey Chris, how were the cops to know your group were tourists? Part of your outrage is based on that, but exactly how are the cops to tell?
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One of the reasons I would never think of walking along the street drinking or in possession of an open bottle is that I like my beer in a glass, with a head on it. Ditto wine and spirits (though generally without the head). Walking away from an establishment with a glass is stealing and I don't tend to drink in the sort of place that has plastic glasses, I left University a long time ago.
Which brings me to a recollection, one of the nice things about Dunedin in the summertime is that the pubs in the North End would serve using actual glassware.
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how were the cops to know your group were tourists?
ze fake accents, of course
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Walking and drinking?
Probably bad for the digestion, unless it's purely hydration & therefore non-alky.
No-ones gonna check your camel pak unless, just sayin.
The joy of a living in one of the worlds 4 planned cities of the colonial world and with flat geography is the ease it is to walk from pub to pub. They're spaced on the cns of the four aves and then just increase as you move in. -
hehe.
how were the cops to know your group were tourists?
nz pop. 4m+
tourists annually 2.5m
a stab in the dark.
"Tourism plays a significant role in New Zealand's economy. Tourism contributes $12.8 billion (or 8.9%) to New Zealand’s total GDP and supports nearly 200,000 full-time equivalent jobs (9.9% of the total workforce in New Zealand)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_zealand
So why undermine the great work these people do? this is not so much a jihad as i'm incredulous as to how i could spend 7 years in bad old industrial China without so much as a mention of arrest, then upon visiting tourism, ag, wine and fine ale nz for less than 2 weeks be threatened with lock up. An anomaly amongst otherwise perfect hospitality from some wonderful people, it made an impression.
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Russell, your confusing fear with risk. As the article goes on to say there has been no change or a decrease in risks.
Alot of that fear has been imported. Bain & Weatherston trials = Dunedin.
The house of horrors guy is from Hamilton.From the Police Stats page 4
DISTRICT RECORDED CRIME PER 10,000 POPULATION, BY AREA
Years ending 30 JuneAuckland City Central Area 4,016.4
Christchurch Central 3,407.7
Christchurch is safer and always has been.
Property damage is twice Aucklands, but that's done by Northshore kids going to Canty Uni.
Notice how the Auckalnd liquor ban is represented as applying everywhere, licensed bars and homes included?
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Chris, not keen on different rules or actions taken against tourists. That just panders to the worse and is undignified.
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Russell, your confusing fear with risk. As the article goes on to say there has been no change or a decrease in risks.
No, violent crime rose 13.4% in the last period in central Christchurch. It fell 5% in Auckland.
DISTRICT RECORDED CRIME PER 10,000 POPULATION, BY AREA
Years ending 30 June
Auckland City Central Area 4,016.4
Christchurch Central 3,407.7Fair enough, I wondered if that might be the case but I didn't have time to sort it out: Central Christchurch city has more violent offences than Auckland, but a higher population (which is surprising in itself). On the other hand, the Auckland central city area is all city; the four avenues quadrant in Christchurch is quite residential.
Christchurch is safer and always has been.
So why does it give me the shits in a way that the Auckland CBD doesn't? I wouldn't hesitate to stroll along K Road on my own at 2am -- it's actually quite fun. Various central Christchurch streets? Not so much.
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It's sad you don't see a city as residential, but that is NZ.
I'll go anywhere anytime, but Manchester Street north of Kilmore at night is the street sex industry. So the danger (to you) is from pimps.
Still a brisk and purposeful stride won't have you hasselled.
Feel safe in the knowledge you're on CCTV, for the Police 10-7 advertising/recruiting show.The south of Manchester St is pretty cool. I think Sol was poorly done, but Poplar Street is cool and a sprinkling of little gems around the place.
One thing we really need is NYs broken windows law. That will fix up the vacant or dero buildings.
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Christchurch's CBD doesn't really extend to the Four Aves all round, but yes you'd expect a higher proportion of residents in an area would make it feel safer. And having lived in the centre of both cities, it doesn't.
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It's sad you don't see a city as residential, but that is NZ.
Not at all.
I'm now officially at a loss as to how the respective population figures have been calculated.
In the last census, Christchurch's central city had 7653 residents. The Auckland CBD had 17,937.
And yet on the police figures, central Christchurch has a higher number of violent offences, but a lower per capita rate. What count are the police using?
Anyway, have to go a make TV show. Back laterz.
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Someone call in a statistician..
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why does it give me the shits in a way that the Auckland CBD doesn't? I wouldn't hesitate to stroll along K Road on my own at 2am -- it's actually quite fun. Various central Christchurch streets? Not so much.
Here's a theory -- in my limited experience, and I wait to be corrected by someone who lives there, those Christchurch streets are somewhat empty (perhaps in fact reflecting the dearth of inhabitants) compared to the Auckland and Wellington equivalents. Harvestbird and I were out a while ago and traversed from Dux Deluxe to Bar Beleza, and went through a great dead zone where hardly any other bugger was about. Cathedral square in particular is scary empty, no matter how well-lit it is.
All other things being equal, I feel safer when I can see lots of other people.
To be fair, it could be that now that Christchurch has a rep, those of us from elsewhere feel a little on edge there late at night, when we wouldn't on our home turf.
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Quite right Stephen.
They're refused to have a bar in the square &have a certain seattle coffee shop in the old post office.
Life exists along the way had you gone south on Oxford Tce (the strip), but you will then risk your ankles on the cobbled stones of Cashel St east to High St. Somehow the City has it in there minds Pedestrian areas should be inaccessable for the elderly or wheelchairs.
On the other side of the block from Bar Beleza is the Kosher Kitchen, good coffee and chess, also a pray room upstairs.
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