Speaker: Not even a statistic
124 Responses
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BenWilson, in reply to
Clarification would be good, on what you mean.
No problem, Jacks. But which part? I don't want to be writing essays on this thread.
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That the perpetrator is seen as someone who cannot be changed, and therefore the victim is always at fault.
This is rape culture. In centuries past, the perp/s would have been called a conqueror/s. Victim blaming is a crime. Thank you Katrina you are incredibly brave.
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Thanks for your brave post Katrina.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
look what happened when Cunliffe apologised. Reading comments in different places as well as here. he was belittled
Which is yet another example of the rape culture in which we exist.
But is the teasing of the mean boys really going to be enough to make Labour back off?
Making New Zealand rape-free is a good thing, no teasing should be enough to stop them and us.
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Lilith __, in reply to
While I do respect your sentiment, Bart. I really do hope you are, at some stage, going to apply your scientific mind to this.
What on Earth do you mean, Steven? You're coming across as insulting and offensive.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I don't think Steven meant to be insulting or offensive, but perhaps he could explain.
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WaterDragon, in reply to
Just seen your post-we are the experts, recognise our expertise-so yes yes yes yes.
We' disabled people have been saying this in relation to disability for so many years, with a sad lack of success. Far easier in both instances to listen to the "experts" on the sidelines because, well who knows really?
But listen to the Emmas . They know whereof they speak. -
I've joined this conversation late but felt compelled to join it ...
Thank you Danielle, Jackie and Emma for speaking my thoughts, it's such a privilege to know there are women who fully, fully understand and are able to speak.
It's also a great privilege to have anything to do with men who are able to engage with this conversation. It's courageous and worthwhile and I appreciate it. Just don't be surprised if they screw up a bit along the way. They've been swimming in rape culture since they were born, same as us.
Thank you Katrina. In the absence of a national dialogue about this, you are contributing to starting one as far as I'm concerned.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
What on Earth do you mean, Steven?
My guess is that I have consciously focused on men raping women in my comments. I do recognise that women are capable of similar violence and that men are also rape victims (from both men and women). But in the interests of addressing the largest portion of the problem first, rather than trying to solve the whole problem at once in all it's diversity, I will continue to focus my thinking and comments on changing society in a way that make men less likely to rape.
My guess is that if we get that right the other rapes will also be reduced and having got to that point we can refocus on the remaining problems.
However, for a (male) victim, that stance must be very painful and for that I'm deeply sorry.
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Adam Bennett wades in to give Samuels shitstirring space. Is Bennett aspiring to be Patrick Gower? This is the type of crap that everyone needs to get through first. I've met Samuels and the man is not one.The likes of him make it very hard to progress with much needed reform.
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Rosemary McDonald, in reply to
.... changing society in a way that make men less likely to rape.
....and this will be done how?
While those who are the predominant victims of rape are trying to stay safe/ survive/protect one another, each in our own way, it would be really useful to have a discussion on how exactly society needs to change " in a way that makes men less likely to rape.""
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
If there was video evidence of an assault of a sexual nature on a child….under the age of legal consent…why in god’s name was there a trial? Surely, in a civilised society, such evidence would be sufficient to spare the victim from inquisition?
All the rapist has to do is plead "not guilty" and it goes to trial. That simple. And hopefully something that will never change, because down that path lie many bad things.
The "inquisition", however, needs to change. All of the things said about the inadequacy of the judicial system once a rape charge is in progress are true. -
kmont, in reply to
Hi Ben, this is such a great conversation I am enjoying the respect and care that is being shown.
Just wanted to shout out to you in particular I remember ages ago commenting on here and sometimes finding the way you were coming across a bit 'challenging' I feel like you have really evolved in the way that you engage in these convos. I hope that doesn't sound patronising, it really isn't intended to be. Just wanted you to know that from my perspective you are 'doing it right'.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
I'd start with education at a very young age. I mean preschool. I think Labour advocate that in their Policy. I have to run but may get back on this later. Ciao
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Rosemary McDonald, in reply to
And hopefully something that will never change, because down that path lie many bad things.
I get this...the" bad things" that can happen to an innocent person falsely accused of sexually assaulting a child can be grave, even fatal. I have knowledge of two such cases...one involving a schoolteacher, who, by the time one of his accusers had the guts to break ranks and confess that it was all about revenge for him catching them smoking at school, was dead. It was his word against theirs. No evidence was needed to investigate or charge him, and it was before the courts before this 15 year old finally told the truth.
In the case described by Abbie....the evidence was there. The victim was under the age of consent....end of story....surely?
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
the evidence was there. The victim was under the age of consent….end of story….surely?
That the jury actually had to have a discussion after seeing the evidence says it's not the end of the story. It says everything about the problem that this thread is discussing.
To deem that a trial is unnecessary because the evidence is apparently a slam-dunk is the path to many bad things that have nothing to do with sexual assaults, but we don't need to go that far to address some of the current problems with how sexual assault trials are conducted.
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ETA: This probably needs a trigger alert, sorry. Young woman brutally assaulted after accepting a ride home late at night. Cue the victim blaming. And the racism, too, probably. Still a lot of work to be done.
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Emma Hart, in reply to
In the case described by Abbie….the evidence was there. The victim was under the age of consent….end of story….surely?
Just to note, 12-15, it's unlawful sexual connection. For a rape charge, which carries higher penalties, you have to prove he didn't have consent.
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Rosemary McDonald, in reply to
Just to note, 12-15, it’s unlawful sexual connection. For a rape charge, which carries higher penalties, you have to prove he didn’t have consent.
"Rape", "unlawful sexual connection"... is there any difference? Really?
Especially when we're talking about a child....under the age of consent...and a MUCH older offender.
There is a LINE. Surely to god in this circumstance "consent", even if it were given, is meaningless as the victim here cannot give consent....she/he is too young.
That's surely why the LINE was put there.
And if anyone suggests the LINE is an artificial contruct....that, say a 15 year old CAN give consent to sexual activity.....then where would YOU put the LINE?
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Here's a great example of the wider rape culture in action, looking after one of their own (hats off to the ODT for both giving us the search terms and telling us it is legal to use them).
I can see why Maggie Barry seems unlikely to use her parliamentary privilege here, so close to an election I bet as soon as Rodney made his suggestion she got a call from NP head office.
The edit history on the perp in question's Wikipedia page makes for fun reading
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Russell Brown, in reply to
(hats off to the ODT for both giving us the search terms and telling us it is legal to use them).
Indeed.
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Rosemary McDonald, in reply to
(hats off to the ODT for both giving us the search terms and telling us it is legal to use them).
I have always had a soft spot for the ODT.
At the risk of the sky falling and a plague upon my house I did....I went there...and, minor surprise... but not.
This is what they mean by Rape Culture.
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Emma Hart, in reply to
And if anyone suggests the LINE is an artificial contruct….that, say a 15 year old CAN give consent to sexual activity…..then where would YOU put the LINE?
There's a long and thoughtful discussion about problems with the age of consent here. I don't really want to get into it on this thread, because this thread is about rape. The case we've been discussing would be rape regardless of the age of the victim.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Well that made me feel sick. I actually stopped short of reading the whole thing. Whats up with people?
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Rosemary McDonald, in reply to
Most abused children know the difference between a smack as part of the disiplinary process and abuse.
No, edit.
All abused children know the difference.
Just ask an abused child.
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