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Speaker: My People

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  • Kyle Matthews,

    I don't think we need to actively try to encourage smaller families because that happens naturally anyway so long as you don't actively promote larger families.

    I've taken this to mean no more reruns of "The Waltons", and "Eight is Enough".

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Sorry Joe, I was just a bit upset that what was a discussion about how to improve the lot of NZ children had somehow become about some eugenics plot that I was scheming and I missed the sarcasm tag.

    I do think that it's of some significance that we now seem to be actively poaching the labour forces of less economically "developed" countries in order to subsidise or own standard of living.

    Yup. Yet another example of how the only way our leaders can imagine growth is to increase the population of workers. It just isn't sustainable.

    You want my vision of something we should try.

    How about we say every child from age 2 to 20 gets "teaching" from skilled trained professionals at say a ratio of no more than 10 to 1. During that time we apply the best known educational theories to allow each child to hit their potential, creatively, intellectually, physically. We also say that all of those children will get healthy nutritious food even if the state has to provide it and will get reasonable exercise to establish a healthy lifestyle. We don't try and change the parents, it's too late for them. But we do try and give the children an opportunity to know how to do it right so that even if their home example isn't perfect then the kids have the knowledge to do it better.

    The idea is we create a generation of kiwis who can do better.

    Would it cost a fortune? - hell yes. Would it have failures and glitches - hell yes. Would it be worth it? I think so. Why don't we try?

    In short we don't need more, we need to do better with the children we have.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Good night, John-Boy.

    (Why do I remember the theme tune to The Waltons so well, but not the theme tune to Eight is Enough?)

    Well, given that Procreating Will Kill Us All, what's NZ's birth rate at the moment? Probably barely replacement level, right? So what are we freaking out about again?

    We don't try and change the parents, it's too late for them.

    Way to crush my spirit there, Bart!

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    (Why do I remember the theme tune to The Waltons so well, but not the theme tune to Eight is Enough?)

    I think that's because the theme song to Eight is Enough is entirely non-memorable.

    The Waltons theme had that distinctive melody - starts with a trumpet it sounds like.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Wow, look at Willie Aames. That's an outfit and hairstyle that just scream 'future Bibleman', don't they? (Aww, I see on Wikipedia he attempted suicide in 2008. Poor dude.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Eight Is Enough theme song

    That was exquisitely suckful.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    Willie never really came down off the high that was Charles in Charge:

    New boy in the neighborhood
    Lives downstairs and it is understood.
    He’s there just to take good care of me,
    Like he’s one of the family.

    Charles in Charge
    Of our days and our nights
    Charles in Charge
    Of our wrongs and our rights

    And I sing, I want,
    I want Charge in Charge of me.

    Charles in Charge
    Of our days and our nights
    Charles in Charge
    Of our wrongs and our rights

    And I sing, I want,
    I want Charge in Charge of me.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    In the cold light of day, over twenty years later, there's something a teensy bit creepy about those Charles in Charge theme tune lyrics, isn't there?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Yet we're back at that point in the political cycle where people want someone to make the decisions for them. Those 80s hair and clothing 'styles' have not dated kindly either.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    And Scott Baio is now a rightwing douchecanoe. Plus ça change.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Yay for moderation!

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    And Scott Baio is now a rightwing douchecanoe. Plus ça change.

    Are there any other childhood memories you want to destroy in the cold harsh light of today? Man.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    Well, given that Procreating Will Kill Us All, what's NZ's birth rate at the moment? Probably barely replacement level, right? So what are we freaking out about again?

    the planet's human population has doubled since i was born in the mid-1960s. that's 45 years. the previous doubling took 65 years. even if it doesn't double again by 2050, the "i'm ok down here in under-populated NZ" attitude is not likely to be helpful to your offspring.

    oh, and the natural increase in NZ population (not from net migration) has accelerated from about 30,000 p.a. to about 35,000 p.a. in recent years. so it's well above repalcement level.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Round about 10,000 yrs BPE, H.sapiens sapiens dwindled to way less than 100,000 specimens...I've read it got as low as 12000, but my machine is throwing hissy fits, and I cant get to links. The figures were proposed by geneticists...

    There have been FAR WORSE THINGS than humans born on/ hurled at this planet (super volcanoes, huge meteors) and I actually find us a fragile & temporary species Bart J-

    and, most literally, unless there are children, our species has no continuance-

    it just will so happen - an unstoppable virus, a massive solar storm, or Planet X/Nibiru whacking into us***


    ***Joke! Joke! Joke!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    unless there are children, our species has no continuance

    that used to be true, yes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    even if it doesn't double again by 2050, the "i'm ok down here in under-populated NZ" attitude is not likely to be helpful to your offspring

    Yeah, I... kind of already knew about the world population explosion, not being a complete ignoramus (I just play one on TV). Thanks for the finger-wagging, though! My day isn't complete without it.

    My perhaps poorly explained point centres solely on this thread's strange freakout over the po' folks having too many sprogs, to which my response is: in New Zealand, are the poverty-stricken actually reproducing way more than one would expect? Do we have an oddly high birthrate amongst the poor for a developed nation? Because I thought most developed nations had birthrates which continued to drop as their general prosperity continued, so you end up with quite small increases. Is that changing?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    "that used to be true, yes."

    Finally got it - we're all going to turn into Vampires.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    this thread's strange freakout over the po' folks having too many sprogs

    for most of us I believe the discussion has been about folks, not just poor ones

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    we're all going to turn into Vampires

    shhh - or nano-robots :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Yeah, but Sacha, isn't this thread also about 'who is going to pay?' Which then becomes about people who aren't able to pay (monetarily, at least).

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    nz's population increase from non-migration factors is accelerating, not slowing down.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Wikipedia - human bottlenecks - have tried twice to embed same


    We are, as a species, waaaay more fragile than some folk here seem to think....

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Huh. I'm quite interested in why that is (NZ's accelerating non-migratory population increase, I mean). Is there an explanatory-demographer-type in the house?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    isn't this thread also about 'who is going to pay?'

    And how.

    monetarily, at least

    As I wrote here this morning:

    Resources are more than money or things or employees. Aroha is too. As is coordination of many caring intentions.

    We all pay in many ways, just as we contribute in many ways. Money doesn't substitute all other resources.

    Without dramatic advances in sustainable energy, resource and social management, there are some overall limits. Within those, how the costs and opportunities and benefits are shared is a political decision. I'm optimistic.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Like many countries we have a resident demographic bulge on the way as our boomers age - over 65s will double over the next two or three decades.

    Someone else can provide overall detail, but to me it's part of the reason we need to have these conversations about social arrangements now rather than rushing them at the last moment. And there are public discourses happening anyway - like the 'breeding bludgers' ones that seem to be colouring perceptions of what others are saying.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

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