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Speaker: Economics of the Waterview Tunnel

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  • FletcherB,

    By cut-n-covering nearly 2km of Gt North Rd, at least Oakley creek and reserve are saved.... at the expense of 2-3 years of traffic mayhem in not just that area but probably a far wider already gridlocked suburbia?

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 893 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    One would imagine that Ontrack would demand that their rail designation not be screwed with. Therefore NZTA would need to ensure that a railway line could be put through.

    That may mean building the motorway in a way that stays outside the rail designation (or only goes within it in a small enough way to not sacrifice the ability for two rail tracks to go through it) or that may mean building the motorway in the rail corridor but assisting Ontrack in designating land to "make up for it". I'm not sure how that works legally though, as you can't designate for "off-setting".

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Yes Fletcher, it will be a traffic management nightmare to build a motorway under one of Auckland's busiest arterial roads.

    And the ironic thing is that the very same motorway won't actually relive congestion on the road above it!

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    Snap. You beat me to it Sam. I assume that the advantage of the rail corridor is in part that people have an expectation that something annoying might occur over their back fence, which would save money. Also, it seems like perhaps the Alan Woods Park that they're using is actually most of the rail designation? So I guess the rail would take a little more park....

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Duncan McKenzie,

    Motorway corridor - 50 metres plus.
    Railway corridor - 20 metres
    So saying the motorway follows the railway corridor is weasel words. It looks like Alan Wood Reserve is fucked.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 53 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    Actually, I've just found an Auckland City Map, and if you look where the rail designation is, it's pretty clear that it would be fucked, if they ever got to building it where they have the land. It doesn't skirt, one edge, but go straight down the middle.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Didn't Mt Roskill SH20 stray into the Avondale-Southdown rail designation, but that was OK because enough room was left for a future railway line.

    One would assume/hope that the same process happens here.

    Duncan, yup Alan Wood Reserve is gone. We can look forward to a motorway out the window.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Duncan McKenzie,

    But Pak n Save has been spared (road builders too frightened to take them on). All this ducking in and out of tunnels will mean the road will be something of a roller-coaster.

    And Joshua, did you get any work done today? :-)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 53 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Traffic management of Great North Road will be interesting. Perhaps a temporary realignment of the road might be necessary while the tunnel is being built?

    And yup, got out 3 submissions :-)

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    It's interesting cross referencing that with the map I found above. Does that mean the cost saving comes from using the rail designation, and then if the rail corridor is built, they'll have to buy out the houses down one side of Hendon Ave?

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Graham,

    re:Alan Wood Reserve cross-section

    So not only is the reserve gone, the motorway is going to be higher than the surrounding area that will only serve to heighten the noise effect, and loss of amenity value for that area.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    That does seem exactly what the drawing shows.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    Traffic management of Great North Road will be interesting.

    Don't suppose they could throw down a temporary roadway along the adjacent reserve, and regrass it once the tunnels are done ;p

    <quote>the motorway is going to be higher than the surrounding area</quote.

    You have to put the fill from the tunnels somewhere. Or pay to put it somewhere. Oh wait, this is the cunning cost saving option.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I thought they needed the fill for the causeway? Maybe there's plenty to go around from all that 60% tunnel malarky.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Graham,

    It's also going to be a big job to widen the road to 3 lanes with all that raising of the ground level. I guess it just shows that the "tunnel can't be widened" argument wasn't really valid either.

    How many houses are on the "future rail corridor"?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    Incidentally, anyone finding themselves in position of a cut-and-cover tunnel they don't want, there's an opening here. We'd like a pedestrian precinct, not a state highway. Cheers.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Does that mean the cost saving comes from using the rail designation, and then if the rail corridor is built, they'll have to buy out the houses down one side of Hendon Ave?

    Seems pretty dodgy, lump the costs onto Ontrack to keep within that $1.4 billion price tag.

    By the way, the CBD rail loop costs around $1.4 billion - time for a comparative cost-benefit analysis perhaps?

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    As you've said convincingly, Joshua, they have to be saving money somewhere (well, very many somewheres, given the huge price difference). The drawing clearly shows the rail route passing through the houses, and it does seem like a very precise drawing.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB,

    I guess it just shows that the "tunnel can't be widened" argument wasn't really valid either.

    This is a conclusion I was coming to, too..

    The prsentation linked to earlier, clearly states one of the problems of the twin 2-lane tunnels, as well as price, is that it's not 'future proof' because its locked in at 4 lanes and too expensive to change.

    It also clearly ads that this new cheaper option IS future proof....

    So, are they going to cut 6 lanes but only pave 4, or are they saying they can cut 4 now and cut 2 more later? And what about the bit under New North road and Avondale heights that IS a deep tunnel? Surely thats exactly as "future proof" as the old option?

    Something doesnt add up...

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 893 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    The Herald graphic indicates that the motorway will take up the entire designated rail corridor. If they ever put rail through they'll have to acquire those houses on the eastern edge to do it.

    Ontrack is out of luck, it would seem.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Ontrack have the designation. NZTA would only be able to build within their designation if Ontrack agree to it.

    So either Steven Joyce put the hard word on Ontrack, or they're just being screwed.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Duncan McKenzie,

    INeighbours on the opposite side of my road (northern end of Bollard Ave) got a letter from NZTA last night, saying they want some or all of their properties. It seems the corridor goes out a bit further than shown on the maps.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 53 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Robeson,

    Josh I think you are looking at this far too much from a wicket to wicket point of view.

    The fact of the matter is that the decline in red socks has been of enourmoose concern to the barons of the red shoe industry.

    they can see that the blue meanie sock brigade will eventually triumph, but they know if there are no blue sock making machines it will be very difficult.

    During pillow talk at night they suggest to their life partner, who runs the sock factory, (maths not being this stories strong point) they suggest that it would be worth their while continuing red socks because there maybe be a technique coming out to create red dye out of existing green dyes.

    so the persuasive red shoe industry ensures that all blue sock machines are shut down and or completely limited capacity, so that when the red dye crisis hits its too little too late for blue sock manufacturing.

    by this time though the red shoes have been sold, and the owners have moved on, leaving the sock manufacturers high and dry and pregnant.

    Since Feb 2008 • 87 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    So either Steven Joyce put the hard word on Ontrack, or they're just being screwed.

    Looks like the cycleway will take up part of the rail corridor if I just heard "the Boss" ( English's words) correctly.He's so happy the railway coridor has some pretty scenery ,all good for te cycleway. Who is screwing who?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

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