As I've pointed out in a press release, Enron style accounting is expected of failed finance companies and shady firms, but not governments. It is disappointing to see the government hold itself to this standard in this issue.

Whipping said beanie off...

It may be an important freight line in the future, but as for passenger trains generally…

Sofie – I am a bit…

There is no justification for it.

Hear Hear.

The fact of the matter is that the decline in red socks has been of enourmoose concern to the barons of the red shoe industry.

they can see that the blue…

So either Steven Joyce put the hard word on Ontrack, or they're just being screwed.

Ontrack is out of luck, it would seem.

I guess it just shows that the "tunnel can't be widened" argument wasn't really valid either.

This is a conclusion I was coming to, too..

The prsentation linked to earlier, clearly states one of the problems of the twin 2-lane tunnels, as well as price, is that it's not 'future…

Does that mean the cost saving comes from using the rail designation, and then if the rail corridor is built, they'll have to buy out the houses down one side of Hendon Ave?

Seems pretty dodgy, lump the costs onto Ontrack to keep within that $1.4 billion price tag.

By…

How many houses are on the "future rail corridor"?

Traffic management of Great North Road will be interesting.

Don't suppose they could throw down a temporary roadway along the adjacent reserve, and regrass it once the tunnels are done ;p

the motorway is going to be higher than the surrounding area

You have to put the fill from the tunnels somewhere. Or pay to put it somewhere. Oh wait, this is the cunning cost saving option.

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 22:10:41 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=109021#post109021 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=109021#post109021 Wed, 13 May 2009 22:03:24 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=109020#post109020 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=109020#post109020 re:Alan Wood Reserve cross-section

So not only is the reserve gone, the motorway is going to be higher than the surrounding area that will only serve to heighten the noise effect, and loss of amenity value for that area.

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 22:01:54 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=109019#post109019 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=109019#post109019 Wed, 13 May 2009 21:59:40 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=109007#post109007 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=109007#post109007 http://www.transit.govt.nz/projects/waterviewconnection/gallery/maps/130509-Alan-wood-reserve-x-section.pdf ]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 21:01:34 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108978#post108978 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108978#post108978 Traffic management of Great North Road will be interesting. Perhaps a temporary realignment of the road might be necessary while the tunnel is being built?

And yup, got out 3 submissions :-)

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 18:30:26 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108969#post108969 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108969#post108969 But Pak n Save has been spared (road builders too frightened to take them on). All this ducking in and out of tunnels will mean the road will be something of a roller-coaster.

And Joshua, did you get any work done today? :-)

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 18:09:37 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108953#post108953 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108953#post108953 Didn't Mt Roskill SH20 stray into the Avondale-Southdown rail designation, but that was OK because enough room was left for a future railway line.

One would assume/hope that the same process happens here.

Duncan, yup Alan Wood Reserve is gone. We can look forward to a motorway out the window.

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 17:35:47 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108952#post108952 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108952#post108952 Auckland City Map, and if you look where the rail designation is, it's pretty clear that it would be fucked, if they ever got to building it where they have the land. It doesn't skirt, one edge, but go straight down the middle. ]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 17:33:17 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108950#post108950 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108950#post108950 Motorway corridor – 50 metres plus.
Railway corridor – 20 metres
So saying the motorway follows the railway corridor is weasel words. It looks like Alan Wood Reserve is fucked.

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 17:24:01 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108946#post108946 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108946#post108946 Wed, 13 May 2009 17:13:14 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108940#post108940 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108940#post108940 Yes Fletcher, it will be a traffic management nightmare to build a motorway under one of Auckland's busiest arterial roads.

And the ironic thing is that the very same motorway won't actually relive congestion on the road above it!

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 17:05:01 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108938#post108938 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108938#post108938 One would imagine that Ontrack would demand that their rail designation not be screwed with. Therefore NZTA would need to ensure that a railway line could be put through.

That may mean building the motorway in a way that stays outside the rail designation (or only goes within it in…

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 17:04:11 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108936#post108936 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108936#post108936 Wed, 13 May 2009 17:02:20 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108935#post108935 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108935#post108935 The diagram in the NZTA presentation appears to still show the possibility of a rail corridor aligned with the diversion. I'm still intrigued by the apparent money saving.

Also, this might be a n00b question, but to what extent are tunnel borers project specific? I note that the Waterview tunnel…

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 17:02:09 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108934#post108934 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108934#post108934 Classy post, Mr Arbury.

Looking at the map there's a section of "future rail" marked in going south from Avondale, with the motorway right beside it to the west.

Is the rail corridor wide enough to accommodate both? If not, which one is going to have to have land acquired…

]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 17:00:57 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108933#post108933 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108933#post108933

Australia is better.

Sorry, that was my point. Australian capital cities have far better public transport. Sydney's is far from faultless, but it immeasurably superior to Auckland's. The train network is particularly good if you live in the "inner-west" of Sydney where stations are perhaps only 1 – 2 kms…

Which brings me back to Sydney, or Melbourne for that matter

I've used public transport in both, and I've used public transport in Auckland. Australia is better.

What major cities use trains anyway?

Which brings me back to Sydney, or Melbourne for that matter, and the observation that despite all the BS about slowing net PLT departures west, the government's not prepared to do the really tough stuff necessary.

So, no rail for Auckland, because national will build a dirty great road in the way.

What major cities use trains anyway? Auckland has no need of such technology!

Mr Roche said the new route would cost approximately $1.4 billion and could be completed in around four years. This cost includes associated SH16 works and is in 2015 dollars.

So, were the other optiosn in 2015 $, or in 2009?

It's a remarkably arrogant move. Remarkable.

But very typical of how National operates.

Amazing though – how exactly did they take all this cost out yet still keep cut-and-cover tunnel for most…

Think I'll go and spend the afternoon in Midnight's instead then..

That would be an afternoon well spent.

The somewhat dull paperwork I'm doing right now must be for fun then. Odd, i thought it was work. Think I'll go and spend the afternoon in Midnight's instead then..

The point was that Te Aro-ans are hardly seen by the politicians as a battle-ground for votes, and easily pigeonholed.…

I think we really need a good journalist to track down which business(es) benefits from the government choosing the above ground option and then to track down which politicians are close personal friends who just happen to have frequent expensive dinners with the owners of said business(es).

TLDR This stinks…

The people of Te Aro neither work, nor have families.

The somewhat dull paperwork I'm doing right now must be for fun then. Odd, i thought it was work. Think I'll go and spend the afternoon in Midnight's instead then..

Is any of the mainstream media gutting these guys like they deserve or are they all accepting that if they say it is it must be true?

I've writeen a guest post for "The Standard" on this issue: http://www.thestandard.org.nz/joyce-trashes-mt-albert/

– NZTA considered a number of options
– The construction cost difference between the cheapest open cut option and the planned…

I live in the area. For what its worth I have always known it was a likely motorway designation and bought our house on a 'buyer beware' basis.

I also recognise that regardless of the merits of motorways v public transport (and long-term I think…

Against my core beliefs, I have to agree with the Greens. It is idiotic to spend so much money on a run down eyesore of a state housing suburb. We need to bulldoze over it now and build a proper road on the surface so all motorists…

I missed that one, but heard the sequel with the chair of the community board and a resident (8.15 ish). Sean's line was (paraphrase) "it must make sense, why else would the government be doing it?"

Sticking my Chair of Community Board felt lind and merino wool beanie on -…

The cheapest option considered was a $1.456 billion Open Cut option. By contrast the twin tunnels were $1.89 billion…

why else would the government be doing it?

Seriously folks, it's clear that the numbers could have been fudged just as easily to make the tunnel look cheaper eg cost for displacement of 241 families = $1.732 billion therefore the tunnel is cheaper.

So I think we really need a…

David Shearer's interview with Sean Plunket this morning was just daft. Shearer tried to explain how the respective costs had been fiddled and Plunket basically saying "but it says here".

I missed that one, but heard the sequel with the chair of the community board and a resident (8.15 ish).…

Am I not the only one to suspect that the amount of time and money paying off the potentially displaced residents will be wildly optimistic?

The way it's shaping up, the new proposal looks like being a veritable masterwork of wild optimism.

David Shearer's interview with Sean Plunket this morning…

How does this affect the timeframe for construction of the Waterview Connection?

Depending on the final scope of the project it could be possible to begin construction in 2011 and complete…

Presumably it's to do with how it connects to the Northwestern motorway (although the word "South" is confusing me)?

These were the options up until today:
http://www.jarbury.net/waterview-costings.jpg

Why did NZTA not investigate the currently proposed options before? There MUST be a reason, and I think that reason…

Someone asked an interesting question upthread along the lines of 'who benefits?', or to put it more crudely, 'where's the money?'.

Rich of Observationz nailed it: the government's anti-debt stance is about keeping interest rates for business low – effectively subsidising their private profits by sacrificing the rest of us.

Discussion about Waterview costing on frogblog.

How will the construction of the Waterview Connection be funded?

A lower cost option of between $1 billion and $1.4 billion can be funded through the NLTF. The NZTA…

Now, I'll admit I haven't been through the numbers with a fine tooth comb, but the take home message I get from them is that all the options are,…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMoi-nDd6cQ

"What do you mean you've never been to Alpha Centauri? For heaven's sake mankind, it's only four light years away you know. I'm sorry, but if you can't be bothered to take an interest in local affairs that's your own lookout. Energize the demolition…

I would imagine they'll just can them Sacha.

Depends – are any of them in National electorates?

Yeah, I know, we'll all have electric cars in 2030, and the singularity won't be long after that.

Creek? What economic benefit does that have to anyone?

Farmers can use it as a cheap sewer?

Short of a huge aerial bombardment, a motorway is the most destructive modern weapon against an urban environment, blocking access on either…

I suppose construction might start in 2012-2013 and…

NZTF uses money from petrol taxes, road-user charges and so forth – which means that debt is not incurr

But if you want to do the other things currently in the NZTF then you have to borrow for them. Or equally you could stop those things going ahead and redivert…

I doubt Joyce is feeling any kind of concern.

The pic appearing with the Herald story is a window onto his inner torment.

It collapsed for various reason, economic and political. That said, it's still here...

Just realised how odd the above sentence is... hope it's comprehensible. George, thank for posting the links re polution. Now back to Mt Albert.

Interesting that everyone's moved away from PPP. I guess they've finally figured out it's a rort.

Mr Joyce said using a public/private partnership was not being proposed in this case and increases to transport funding meant it was the most cost effective way of paying for the road.

In what way can using the existing transport fund be cheaper? Does servicing…

Sydney's tunnels definitely weren't cheaper either, and surprise surprise the road tunnels haven't hugely improved traffic

They also have very nasty effects in concentrating pollution, and on those who live near to their exhaust towers. They're carcinogen concentrators.

I know that the cross-town tunnels did not nearly attract as many people as originally thought, which led to reduction in the toll.

Don't want to distract attention from Mt Albert – the cross city tunnel was a PPP development, the Eastern Distributor was public $$. It collapsed for various…

Sydney's tunnels definitely weren't cheaper eithe, and surprise surprise the road tunnels haven't hugely improved traffic.

Mt Albert is the home of "working families". The people of Te Aro neither work, nor have families.

Goddamn hippies. Get a haircut!

And I really think that this is all about the future extensions they can put on a surface option, which would be much more difficult with either the tunnels or the cut-and-cover.

Presumably 'extensions' means 'adding even more lanes'? Great. And that's worked so very well in L.A....

The Eastern Distributor, from the Sydney CBD to the airport, is partially a tunnel and tolled for northbound traffic only.…

Smith has just put the urgent debate re the Waterview Connection off because the decision hasn't been made.

I think he's been a pretty good Speaker so far, but today he also allowed Key to just plain not answer Goff's question about the costs of creating the super-city. Key instead…

So the lesson is start early, dig in hard?

I'll take a leaf from Kevin Rudd here, and say that Australia has taught me one thing: "working families".

Mt Albert is the home of "working families". The people of Te Aro neither work, nor have families.

NZTA worked for years and yeard to create an "open cut" option cost of $1.456 billion, and now Steven Joyce is saying that "the other two options…

Were we really not willing to have an extra $130m a year spent on this?

Wellingtonians will remember the Bypass, how it was fought for decades – with a fair amount of direct action in the final years. I helped a few people lock themselves to things. That was a bitter one.

The difference was that heaps of land in Aro had been designated for…

I am angry and upset, more so than I thought I would be. I’m very angry – I want to throw something, hit something.

I wondered why I was angry; I am angry that the (little) effort I spent on a couple of Saturday…

how about we take the Arthur Dent option and put some serious non-violent direct action in front of these bulldozers?

Will take years for the bulldozers to arrive. In the meantime, protesters might have to settle for running in front of surveyers' levels.

This definitely sounds like it'll be 'called in'. Which means making your submission straight to the…

Of note:

The consent process would be fast tracked and limited to nine months.

We all know what fast-tracked means – taking away the right to have your voice heard.

Geez I HAVE to be able to watch that....

how about we take the Arthur Dent option and put some serious non-violent direct action in front of these bulldozers?

What all go to the pub at the crucial moment? Sweet.

I don't really know how relevant this sort of thing is within a NZ context.

Wellingtonians will remember the Bypass, how it was fought for decades – with a fair amount of direct action in the final years. I helped a few people lock themselves to things. That was a…

Rhema were you a candidate for the recent Mt Albert selection for Labour?

This post is strident, to the point, informed and the type of strong opposition we need from a united left wing in parliament and outside to combat this.

We can't afford to wait another 3…

All they said was they supported the idea of a Super-City in theory. Twyford has said the same, as has Goff I think. The issue is HOW the super-city will be implemented and exactly what shape it will be implemented in.

I haven't seen the articles Key quoted from, so…

Seriously, National could have played with numbers and justified either option. As it is they've tried to tell lies about the numbers to justify the surface route.

The question is why?

Spending money isn't bad in a recession, it actually does help the economy recover. So…

Just watching parliament now, I can't help but wonder what Phil Goff will be saying to Robertson and Hawkins who've spoiled his criticisms of the government by appearing to endorse the super-city. South Auckland is not well served by these two who're long past their used-by dates.

All they said…

how about we take the Arthur Dent option and put some serious non-violent direct action in…

Best wishes to you and your neighbours figuring out how to have your say about this. Given the amount of well-resourced spin you'll face, it's important not to come across in…

Hence my comment about increased costs and delays – most if not all of these big projects in…

"Will be interesting to see the analysis of how the proposed RMA changes (projects of national significance etc) will affect the ability to oppose."

People will still take direct action be it lawful or not.

Note to Opposition parties: this could be an effective talking point. "Under our model, you could have been involved like this (and we wouldn't have proposed…

Though National have an easy way around that…

"I predict high levels of direct action if/when development starts."

"I did wonder about this.

There are significant costs associated with delays, security and general removal of non-cooperative warm bodies from the paths of bulldozers. I…

The revised GPS would increase the level of funding for the New and Improved Infrastructure for State Highways activity class by almost $1 billion…

And yes, there are a lot of Housing New Zealand properties around there. And also around Waterview.... surprise surprise it's the poor…

...there's only so much money in the NTLF, and its all already committed to other projects. Funding Waterview this way means that some of those other projects will have to be bumped, meaning that either those roads won't be built, or to the…

And I suspect they…

Wonder what social impact comes from removing so many parks?

Good question, I'm sure I've heard them valued in the billions....

Regarding Bill Ralston's assertion, that's all good and well if the motorway runs through your house – demand good money and get out of there. But what if it…

Wonder what social impact comes from removing so many parks?

Oakley Creek has been in the news for an appalling crime recently. Not sure that concerting over rogue parks is the answer the area was looking for, though.

Labour running a bad line at the moment – don't make it about Mt Albert and the by-election guys. Making a long-term Auckland-wide issue look like a political grab for a single by-election doesn't play well.

It's like they saw David Farrar's line about "Labour's pet tunnel" and decided to…

Making a long-term Auckland-wide issue look like a political grab for a single by-election doesn't play well

If you're looking to contrast decisive and inclusive leadership styles, it's a pretty handy issue though.

And where does the funding for the National Land Transport Fund come from?

That does come from petrol taxes, road-user charges and vehicle licensing fees. I don't have much problem with those funds being used for it, but that will come at a cost. The government's revised government policy statement…

To me, that Rosebank route made much more sense in linking the prime industrial area that Auckland City Council are planning to intensify over the next decade or two. Less impact on residential amenity and environment from what I recall, which I think…

I predict high levels of direct action if/when development starts.

I did wonder about this.

There are significant costs associated with delays, security and general removal of non-cooperative warm bodies from the paths of bulldozers. I strongly suspect these haven't been taken into account.

And those are just the forseeable…

http://jarbury.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/waterview-options.jpg

And where does the funding for the National Land Transport Fund come from?

Exactly.
Oh man that's got me mad now – I share Craig's rage at tax/spend/borrow smoke and mirrors. Most especially direct lies like this one.

That would however, drive up interest rates for the years following the recession, **impacting…

This may be the place to do it as well – Jarbury thanks for your factual investigation and willingness to spread it across multiple blogs. It's certainly been of interest to me.

Seconded. I only discovered Josh's blog today and have been happily browsing through it.

"Mr Joyce said that the tunnel would have been funded by borrowing but the surface option, being cheaper, could be funded through the Government's National Land Transport Fund."

Nice try. And where does the funding for the National Land Transport Fund come from?

I love the way…

There's a lot of info on that though: http://www.transit.govt.nz/projects/waterviewconnection/info_and_documents/

So yet again, National walks away from an extensive consultative process and merrily shits on Aucklanders.

Bastards.

Exactly. These guys are a bunch of wreckers. The arrogance of this decision is simply breathtaking. Not listening to experts is once thing, but openly deriding the wishes of an entire community is…

]]> Tue, 12 May 2009 13:17:22 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108409#post108409 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108409#post108409 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:17:12 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108407#post108407 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108407#post108407 Billion dollar Auckland tunnel canned. Subheading: "500 properties in the road". ]]> Tue, 12 May 2009 13:13:33 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108406#post108406 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108406#post108406 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:12:49 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108405#post108405 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108405#post108405 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:12:32 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108404#post108404 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108404#post108404 Sorry I never quite finished off my comparison of costs between the previous tunnel option and this option:

Construction:
Tunnel: $2 billion
This option: $710m-$1.1b

SH16 upgrades:
Tunnel: $290 million
This option $290 million

Financing:
Tunnel: $550 million
This option: $0

I always knew that putting financing on it was…

]]> Tue, 12 May 2009 13:10:55 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108403#post108403 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108403#post108403 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:10:36 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108402#post108402 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108402#post108402 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:08:12 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108401#post108401 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108401#post108401 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:05:43 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108400#post108400 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108400#post108400 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:05:34 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108399#post108399 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108399#post108399 Three options within the $1.4 billion cost cap. Ha!

1) Extremely crap option
2) Very crap option
3) Crap option

]]> Tue, 12 May 2009 13:04:08 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108396#post108396 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-economics-of-the-waterview-tunnel/?p=108396#post108396 About consultation – DPF quotes media Q&A:

“The NZ Transport Agency’s Board is meeting today to consider the three alternative options and will announce its preference tomorrow, once it has had the opportunity to make first contact with those directly affected.

“A thorough consultation process on the form of the…

]]> Tue, 12 May 2009 13:01:37 +1200