Speaker: Copyright Must Change
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but I also recognise that copyright breathes if you will and the life that breath gives is what gave us things like hip-hop, which stretched copyright's boundaries and led to one of the most vibrant and important musical genres of all time.
I'm also old enough to recall a similar panic over sampling on hip-hop records. That was sorted out.
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you poisoned your own well there simon.
I think the part of the sentence you left out was the important bit: you might want to read up on George, My Sweet Lord, and the evil Allen Klein.
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@RB
and also that Harrison was notoriously tight with money..hence the lyrics to Taxman.Although, having just read through the Beatles' early recording contracts I can see why
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The actual Fab 4 contracts are here
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Look band making people excited..apparently they're pulling crowds who love them
They have a buzz..go for it guys
Oh wait..old musos in Chch can't get a crowd.
Time to give up guys ..P2P has killed the industry...
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Blaming others when they don't gets tired. That's what I'm reading here.
Then you're reading it wrong
I'm not blaming anyone simon, i'm pointing out how it actually is in contradiction to what you want it to be like. you say I offer no proof, yet I give you first hand accounts.
grass roots, ground level, reality.
not good enough for you? -
grass roots, ground level, reality.
not good enough for you?Nope because for every first hand account of some band who people don't want to see is doing badly I can point to an act or artist who is doing well and creating a buzz for themsleves
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Look band making people excited..apparently they're pulling crowds who love them
They have a buzz..go for it guysAh yes -- they're on Awesome Feeling III. Which is a, er, free download ...
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Oh wait..old musos in Chch can't get a crowd.
who's talking about old musos?
most of these people are under 20.
you got to get out more simon :)Once again you make the argument that these people from the 70s/ 80s are owed a living..bullshit. Why?
once again you've read into my words something I didn't say. I don't think they're owed a living, but that fact that them or anyone new will struggle to break even because of ever relaxing attitudes to paying for what you consume means that they won't get to go on and make their abbey road or revolver, they'll be stopped short at please please me or with the beatles if you're luck (to put it in peak artist terms that you'll understand).
that's got nothing to do with old muso's from the 80's. Its to do with a sustainable longevity. Some of my favourite albums are 4-5 down the track. that said my fav album of all time is the second one a bunch of old fucks from the 80's did when they were young and not making hits. -
But aren't there young bands from Christchurch doing brilliantly well?
Bang! Bang! Eche, for example, who played the Music Month showcase this month after storming the US college charts and touring the US and Europe. Don't they count?
Or the L.E.D.s, who aren't in a position to tour, but have still made two brilliant albums?
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who's talking about old musos?
most of these people are under 20.
you got to get out more simon :)I get out a lot. Age is irrelevant. People either want to see you or they don't. Anything else is just making excuses, which is what I'm reading here.
I feel for any musician who puts their heart and soul into it but really doesn't connect. Since we're talking old, I used to look at those bands outside the punk scene in the 70s. They mostly couldn't understand why they had such lame gigs. Many were of the same age as the bands in the 'scene' pulling a crowd.
They blamed all sorts of things, not least the death of musicianship and taste and disco, but missed the point. Nothing much has changed but I'm at a loss to work out why a band with no crowd can blame p2p or piracy.
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means that they won't get to go on and make their abbey road or revolver, they'll be stopped short at please please me or with the beatles if you're luck (to put it in peak artist terms that you'll understand)
And yet there are thousands of acts out there onto their 5th or 6th albums and surviving well.
i'm kinda over people making excuses because that's all I'm reading.
Ah yes -- they're on Awesome Feeling III. Which is a, er, free download ...
There was some great stuff on that collection. no? Not bad for a dying industry.
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they'll be stopped short at please please me or with the beatles if you're luck
and since those are the terms you seem comforatble with maybe reflect on the fact that for every Beatles or Rolling Stones there were 3000+ Freddie and The Dreamers.
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doing brilliantly well?
why don't you ask them?
I have.
they're making nothing from their endeavors and they're relying on their rich parents to fund them. allegedly one of the original band members was kicked out cos his parents weren't rich enough to cover his travel expenses to tour overseas.one word, unsustainable.
as for L.E.D's, yes indeed 2 good albums, (I particularly like the track Slow from the new album). all self funded and recorded. They have to choose the gigs they can break even on, and it never goes beyond that for them. They'll also have to think long and hard about their next album as they try and pay off the one they've just done. if you want to know how a band is really doing you have to ask the right questions.
everyone wants to put the face of success on their projects cos nothing breeds success like... well success, -
and since those are the terms you seem comfortable
I was trying to make you feel comfortable mate, I wasn't born till the beatles had already clicked up a few hits.
I'm decidedly uncomfortable talking in terms of the major exceptions in the music world.
if you want to make me feel more comfortable you could talk in terms of the people outside of the top 10% -
I think the part of the sentence you left out was the important bit
I think the part I left in was the most important part, but why are you turning the convo round to plagiarism. I think that is the least of the music of film industries worries and a part of that is adequately dealt with in a court of law if you care to take it there.
guess it fills the pages till pg 101
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and not as a grainy DV shot from a TV.
drama queen.
have you ever done telesync. I have, I used to have to dub films to vhs for screenings in lecture theatres. they weren't grainy they were as shitty as the original film and the medium of vhs.
Mr Stowell's also done it recently too and said the results were quite good.but hey, lets not take either of our words, lets go with yours.
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Time to work towards the future rather than wondering why the past doesn't work anymore.
who's wondering, I have a pretty clear idea myself, as for working towards the future,
two things,you put your money where your mouth is and go first.
I'm seeing a lot of talking but not much walking.and something long the lines of fools rush in,
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Acts that excite people make money. Acts that don't excite people rarely do.
These are well attended gigs at a venue that has existed for over 20 years.
I'm saying that on the local scene its gone backwards for income.
bands I was in 15 years ago were charging and getting twice what the average band feels they can charge now, and that's adirect result of eroded respect for the value of music. its got nothing to do with the cost of making it, its got to do with what people feel they need to pay for it.
The same is going to happen to movies and then books.
I don't see you getting that, yet.some people thing that the only way that will change is through education and enforcement. apparently you're not one of them, along with a few others in this discussion.
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Acts that excite people make money. Acts that don't excite people rarely do.
These are well attended gigs at a venue that has existed for over 20 years.
I'm saying that on the local scene its gone backwards for income.
bands I was in 15 years ago were charging and getting twice what the average band feels they can charge now, and that's adirect result of eroded respect for the value of music. its got nothing to do with the cost of making it, its got to do with what people feel they need to pay for it.
The same is going to happen to movies and then books.
I don't see you getting that, yet.some people think that the only way that will change is through education and enforcement. apparently you're not one of them, along with a few others in this discussion.
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I'm also old enough to recall a similar panic over sampling on hip-hop records. That was sorted out.
you're kidding right?
its a bloody unpleasant minefield of potential lawsuits.
it has settled down a bit and its nice to see people recording their own loops rather that go through the rigmarole of clearing samples. -
Nope because for every first hand account of some band who people don't want to see
don't be an old bugger simon. these are bands doing well by todays standards. the 2 russell mentioned above for starters .
and the situation is similar throughout the country with the notable exception of wellington who had a pretty good live scene with realistic cover charges being charged and got. This may have changed recently but it was going well last time i looked.
cassette number 9 in ak with its massive turnout most nights pays bands $400 for a headline act and considerably less for artists further down the bill.
if that's picking up cash in lieu of recording sales then its not quite as rosy as painted is it.
your tours through the country of bands on similar levels were creaming it in comparison. -
things like hip-hop, which stretched copyright's boundaries and led to one of the most vibrant and important musical genres of all time.
I've left this one till last, I still don't know how to milk the best out if it, it's such a pompous statement on so many levels that I can't quite choose the right one to do it the justice it deserves. I'm going to fuck it up which ever way I go.
ok here goes...
you what?
nah, that wasn't any good,
says you?
see I told you this was going to be hard. I so wanted to do a one line take down but its not going to be that easy.
I'm sure all the other music genres (are you including classical music in that broad and sweeping statement) are thanking you for letting them off the hook of the pressure of being top dog genre. everyone wants a piece of you when you're the top.
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ok, that's me done for a while, I'll let Danielle take over for a bit.
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These are well attended gigs at a venue that has existed for over 20 years.
I'm saying that on the local scene its gone backwards for income.Once again excuses Rob..so what. Other people seem to be thriving. you are not. And you are tossing blame around. Just because you don't connect anymore or the scene you are in (and I'm not trying to say you don't put your all in, I know you do) are the guys who've missed out, which is what you seem to be saying, don't blame others. It's never been about 'average bands' or even just above 'average' bands, it's about acts like Smashproof or others that stand above the noise. I really don't give a toss what the 'average' band got or gets..that's just another excuse for nobody wants to hear my music
eroded respect for the value of music.
Once again, data please, because all the data worldwide says pretty much the opposite. Unit sales of music are up. Otherwise it's still just excuses for nobody likes our music and we can't pull a crowd.
you're kidding right?
No, he's absolutely right.
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