Public Address Word of the Year 2008

268 Responses

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  • Heather Gaye,

    And what I find weird is being told after all these years that I don't "look Maori" or "look gay" or whatever.

    Craig: If it's any consolation, I always assumed you were Maori, but I was quite surprised when you came out as a National supporter.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    I dunno, why? You went here:

    What the hell is his mother -- some high yellow negress "passing" for white?

    I understand your point (any identity-category terminology is a right old inaccurate bugbear), I just think it misses the point. Would you feel happier saying that Obama is the first mixed-race president? (But that would be historically inaccurate, I think).

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I think people that insist that Obama is "not-black" are ignoring (or are ignorant of) a very extreme culture of institutionalised discrimination - one that carries as much (if not more) of the foundation of modern US society as liberty or justice - thus belittling the massive cultural shift signified by electing a president of African descent.

    OK, I'm going there... You really want to try schooling me about the galaxy of "weird" miscegenation stirs up across the board? I know that's not where you're coming from, but I personally find it rather "belittling" to see the kind of denial in play when people of mixed-race are shoved back in the closet -- even if, as Obama has arguably done, it's a closet with an open door and well-oiled hinges. To mix my paraphrases for a moment: we've come a long way, baby -- but there's still miles to go before anyone sleeps.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    I personally find it rather "belittling" to see the kind of denial in play when people of mixed-race are shoved back in the closet

    I understand, and I totally agree. I've no doubt that mixed-race individuals have likely had an even worse deal throughout America's history and deserve the same recognition & reparation that descendents of slaves are still fighting for. But I don't think that's a battle for which Obama necessarily has to be the standard-bearer. Also, it's mainly the "not-black" epithet that bugs me. The Americans that have expressed this view seem to infuse it with racist overtones.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    You really want to try schooling me about the galaxy of "weird" miscegenation stirs up across the board?

    Heavens no, not schooling (I've put that behind me), just agreeing with the others that your advanced critical race theory doesn't mesh easily with the conventional, quotidian, widely-accepted narratives of race according to which Obama is the first black president.

    Which is dandy - you wouldn't want it any other way, and you're not wrong. Obama would probably be the first to agree with you. Strictly speaking, yes, he is the first readily identifiable, self-identified (ooh is that a problem?) mixed-race President (yay) and I think his first book speaks very strongly to an identity that straddles the categories and/or stakes out a new one.

    Which, if we could name it, would bring us back to the subject o the thread.

    (Do you think he smokes Virginia Slims? Or American Spirit?)

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    Americans that have expressed this view seem to infuse it with racist overtones.

    Wit, racist overtones is wrong... just that their stances seem to be nothing to do with defending the rights of mixed-race people.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    Also, it's mainly the "not-black" epithet that bugs me. The Americans that have expressed this view seem to infuse it with racist overtones.

    Good call, Heather. Colin Powell would be another example, by virtue of his Jamaican parents, of the "not-black" (i.e. not descended from enslaved Africans) black person, who gets a pass by virtue of seeming/talking/emanating "white."

    With Obama, it's almost as though some of those early modern discourses about noble African princes have leapfrogged a couple of centuries so as to give comfort and succour to those who find the notion of a 21st black president somewhat frightening and/or unnatural... but I'm getting flashbacks to grad school, and further derailing the discussion.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    He's the first black president and the forty-fourth white president. I fail to see the semantic difficulty here.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    __Kiwis have a predilection for inspecting every strand of DNA to determine someone's Maoriness__
    Do they? I have formed a strong impression of the opposite.

    Isn't it one of the good things about NZ that the legal basis for being a Maori is simply considering yourself to be one? It seems a lot better than getting out the calipers and measuring skulls.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Yup. And then there's this recent pearl by international idiot Hal G.P. Colebatch:

    New Zealand has a complicated and obscure voting system (for example, four parliamentary seats are reserved for Maoris, despite the fact few pure-blood Maoris still exist).

    Which also made me think, thank the stars we don't actually think that way.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    Hoho. I just re-read the comments to that. One of the people debating with you writes for, er, Investigate.
    http://www.amybrooke.co.nz/about.php

    Limerick, Ireland • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    He's the first black president and the forty-fourth white president. I fail to see the semantic difficulty here.

    Bravissimo!

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    Fascinating, some of the comments on the Colebatch thread have evaporated into thin air. At least, the one calling him a misogynist has.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews,

    Love the bit in that Colepatch column where Clark gets accused of "pseudo-Peronist populism". You think you've heard everything possible insult from the Kiwiblog right, and then a new one comes from out of not-left field. Doubt there's a musical in Peter Davis's life though.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 656 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    "It won't be easy; you'll think it strange..."

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    One of the people debating with you writes for, er, Investigate.

    As she's quite entitled to of course. And let's say I'm not surprised, given the caliber of her comments.

    Doubt there's a musical in Peter Davis's life though.

    Heh!

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Isn't it one of the good things about NZ that the legal basis for being a Maori is simply considering yourself to be one? It seems a lot better than getting out the calipers and measuring skulls.

    Well, yes... but it's going to be a wonderful day when slapping racial labels (or ethnic identifiers, if you please) on people in public life looks equally quaint.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    He's the first black president and the forty-fourth white president. I fail to see the semantic difficulty here.

    And John Key is New Zealand's third head of government of Jewish descent, and I'd sure be wondering WTF was going on if that label appeared in every news report about him. Nothing wrong with it, but it's a) seriously misleading, and, b) I'd find the motivations for the empasis questionable at best.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    And John Key is New Zealand's third head of government of Jewish descent, and I'd sure be wondering WTF was going on if that label appeared in every news report about him.

    Yes, Craig, it's exactly the same thing.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Yes, Craig, it's exactly the same thing.

    Well, yes it is. If you've actually got to put racial or religious labels on people, it does help if they're accurate, doesn't it?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Well, yes it is.

    Good then.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    John Key being of Jewish descent isn't the same thing at all. Context, history... I'm calling 'false equivalence' here.

    reductive labels being put on women because of what they look like

    Like... what? I mean, I *am* a woman. That's not all I am, but describing me as a woman isn't 'reductive'. It's 'descriptive'. So how is calling Obama the first black president reductive rather than descriptive? Particularly given all that context and history? I don't really get you on this point.

    (Cajun fraction, while we're here: 1/2. Maori fraction: uh, what's 1/4th of 3/4ths? That, anyway. I failed maths in sixth form, which might have helped with that equation.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    John Key being of Jewish descent isn't the same thing at all. Context, history... I'm calling 'false equivalence' here.

    And anti-Semitism is a thing of the past? And how soon we forget - a mere eight years ago - when there was much educated hand-wringing about whether America was ready to have a Jew a heartbeat away from the Presidency. Pardon me if I call bullshit right back at you.

    Like... what? I mean, I *am* a woman. Like... what? I mean, I *am* a woman. That's not all I am, but describing me as a woman isn't 'reductive'. It's 'descriptive'. So how is calling Obama the first black president reductive rather than descriptive? Particularly given all that context and history?

    Including the context and history around the, to my mind, rather creepy discourse around whether Obama was "black enough" or "too white". I really don't get the hostility around the equally descriptive -- and more accurate -- description of Obama as America's first bi-racial President, unless that's a little too close to home in a country where inter-racial couples (and their children) still face a hell of a lot of hostility.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Pardon me if I call bullshit right back at you.

    Oh dear God.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • philipmatthews,

    Craig, if John Key had been running for President of the United States you might have a point. But I think Giovanni just put that better in three words.

    Here in NZ, anti-semitism has never been much of an issue, which is why no-one bothered talking about John's Jewishness during the campaign.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2007 • 656 posts Report Reply

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