Legal Beagle: Practical considerations
55 Responses
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How will Maori get the option to change rolls now that the census is canceled?
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but I appreciated Danyl’s observation:
Oh, frak that -- the concern trolling about the public purse gets trotted out by political hack too bloody often.
Well, you know something -- democracy costs. So does a police force and judiciary in a national with any pretensions to civilization. YMMV whether whether you'd like to life in a nation that's that efficient.
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Perhaps Harawira is going for a byelection now as an early practical test of that agreement with the Maori Party not to campaign against one another? See if it extends to the flaxroots networks, etc.
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Sacha, in reply to
democracy costs
Agree. Hard to get worked up about this instance when there has been so much extravagant pork-barrelling in the last couple of years.
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How will Maori get the option to change rolls now that the census is canceled?
After the next census is held. Given that there is a general election this year, even had the census been held this year, the Maori option, and the redrawing of the boundaries would have been delayed until next year.
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So if he is doing it for the money he has stuffed up big time but not for the first time
Wonder if Hone (or his followers) reads PA , doubt it as we tend to be mostly white m.f.s but it would be nice if he got the message -
3410,
After the next census is held. Given that there is a general election this year, even had the census been held this year, the Maori option, and the redrawing of the boundaries would have been delayed until next year.
So they've still been screwed out of their option to switch for 2014?
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So they've still been screwed out of their option to switch for 2014?
Only if the census never happens. I don't imagine that will be the case.
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Idiot Savant, in reply to
Oh, frak that -- the concern trolling about the public purse gets trotted out by political hack too bloody often.
Well, you know something -- democracy costs.
Indeed. And I expect that if Hone wasn't seeking a new mandate, the same people currently complaining about the cost would be complaining that he was illegitimate because he had founded a new party.
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3410,
Only if the census never happens. I don't imagine that will be the case.
Well, it was cancelled, not postponed, right? So the next one is 2016?
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Sacha, in reply to
will be next year
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
So if he is doing it for the money he has stuffed up big time but not for the first time
Honestly, trying to figure out what’s flitting through Hone Harawira’s mind at any given moment is like trying to do one of the super-sized sudoku puzzles with a hangover. Big ups if you can do it, but I’m not smart or masochistic enough to try.
Indeed. And I expect that if Hone wasn’t seeking a new mandate, the same people currently complaining about the cost would be complaining that he was illegitimate because he had founded a new party.
Well, of course I’d say this, but Phil Goff’s concern trolling about the public purse was delightfully amusing. What did he think would be the outcome when he was calling for Pansy Wong’s resignation? Also don’t remember him having a damn thing to say when the incumbent MP for Mount Albert announced her intention to “force” a by-election the day she was returned with a near ten-and-a-half thousand majority.
Having said that, that kind of political concern trolling is far from exclusive to Labour. National was so desperate to avoid a by-election in New Plymouth, they happily voted to retrospectively amend the Electoral Act under extreme urgency.
Either change the damn law so no MP can trigger a by-election unless they’re dead, gaga or being sent to prison or STFU.
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I would say that one good reason for the by-election is to (assuming that Hone wins) establish his hold on the electorate and thus enable those considering voting for the Mana Party at the general election to be sure that their votes will not be wasted.
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I would say that one good reason for the by-election is to (assuming that Hone wins) establish his hold on the electorate and thus enable those considering voting for the Mana Party at the general election to be sure that their votes will not be wasted.
That assumes that his opponents will contest. If his major opponent comes from the McGillicuddy Serious Party like Winston's did in 1993, or the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party like Tariana's did in 2004, the precedent will be worth much less.
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Idiot Savant, in reply to
That assumes that his opponents will contest. If his major opponent comes from the McGillicuddy Serious Party like Winston's did in 1993, or the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party like Tariana's did in 2004, the precedent will be worth much less.
I expect it'll be the Hapu Party, which is only slightly more serious.
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I'd imagine the reason he's gone with the by-election is to get to campaign once before the actual election - media coverage, establish his brand, celebration party etc. Good dry run, and a pretty much free chance to get publicity and rack up a win with at least a reasonable amount of media attention.
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If Labour don't run, they'll be on the back foot come the general election. Hone has a huge majority in any case.
I can see Mana getting 1.5-2% at the general election and hence 2 or 3 MPs. It's even possible that in the unlikely event of a tight result, Labour might need those votes, although they'd probably rather enable a National minority government.
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To change the subject to the other insurgent party leader for the moment, should the Electoral Act 1993 be modified to prevent the undemocratic prospect of an unelected person becoming leader of a parliamentary party?
Craig Y
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should the Electoral Act 1993 be modified to prevent the undemocratic prospect of an unelected person becoming leader of a parliamentary party?
No.
1. The Electoral Act doesn't recognise the existence of party leaders at all.
2. If you don't like him don't vote for him.Don Brash's being the Party Leader of ACT doesn't get him into Parliament, doesn't get him a salary, or ACT any funding. It's a name that means precisely nothing in any legal sense.
I anticipate that ACT will also get a Parliamentary leader some time in the next week. It seemed to work okay for Russel Norman.
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One could argue that given that Hone Harawira is seeking a democratic mandate from his constituents, though, he has far more legitimacy than Dr Brash, who can't even be bothered to stand for Parliament, And at least Russell Norman got in via the Green Party list. It'd only take Boscawen or Douglas to step aside for Brash to re-enter. Otherwise, there's the question of legitimacy as an elected leader to dog (...) ACT between now and November.
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Michael Homer, in reply to
It’d only take Boscawen or Douglas to step aside for Brash to re-enter.
He's not on the list.
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Michael's right. The only way Dr Brash enters Parliament before the next election is beating Hone Harawira in the Te Tai Tokerau by-election.
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Biobbs, in reply to
Michael's right. The only way Dr Brash enters Parliament before the next election is beating Hone Harawira in the Te Tai Tokerau by-election.
I so want to see this contest. Perhaps he could kick off his campaign with a speech in Orewa.
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Sacha, in reply to
I so want to see this contest
Haven't had a decent lynching for ages
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
And at least Russell Norman got in via the Green Party list.
Wasn't he co-leader outside Parliament for over two years before entering Parliament? And one could say that folks who party voted Green (and members who participated in the democratic list formation) didn't vote for Mike Ward and Catherine Delahunty to stand aside. That's the problem with playing legitimacy bingo -- it so often comes back to bite.
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