Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

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Legal Beagle: D-Day for Dunne (updated)

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  • Rob Stowell,

    I'd like to think Labour and the greens were willing to give the speaker a fair go. Might be naive ... obviously parliament works best for all parties when the speaker has the respect of the whole house (excepting Winston- not sure who he respects!)
    David is a neighbour and acquaintance. I'm not impugning his personal character. I think he's a decent bloke.
    But he's struggled to *seem* impartial and above the fray. Maybe Wilson did too, I wasn't paying attention :)
    I just don't think he was the right choice.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    The Speaker acts on formal advice and does not take the initiative.

    Seems relevant

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Does seem out of his depth at times. Is he a shrewd man in person?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    I don't see a reason why you wouldn't, unless perhaps it wasn't in writing?

    Or if it means you have to disclose where/who that advice came from.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    I reckon we should have a fixed allowance for all MPs of something like $200k to cover all personal and parliamentary expenses, with it left to the MP and their party (or their cat) as to how they apportion and spend that. (But they would have to produce accounts for the benefit of their electors).

    I think it should be pegged to the median wage, so as to give them an incentive to raise that.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to Sacha,

    Shrewd enough :)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Ianmac,

    I don't know how to find Hansard, but I think the Speaker might have used "legal advice" in his earlier comments yesterday, though thereafter he used just "advice" meaning I suppose "Jerry Advice."

    Bleneim • Since Aug 2008 • 135 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Ianmac,

    I don’t know how to find Hansard, but I think the Speaker might have used “legal advice” in his earlier comments yesterday, though thereafter he used just “advice” meaning I suppose “Jerry Advice.”

    Yesterday's wasn't up in written form when I checked a few hours ago, but you can watch the video on inthehouse.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Phil Lyth,

    lanmac, Graeme

    "Draft" Hansard is published at http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/Drafts/ They explain on the page:

    "The draft transcript is the first draft of the Hansard for a sitting day. Each speech is added to the transcript about 2½ hours after it has been given in the House. Speeches are removed once they have been published as part of an Uncorrected Daily"

    Wellington • Since Apr 2009 • 458 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson,

    According to the draft Hansard, the Speaker didn't refer to "legal advice" :

    Mr SPEAKER: This is a matter that is serious, but it is also a matter for which there is no precedent. I have decided, after taking advice and giving serious thought to this matter, to allow the member and his party some time to put the matter right. I accept that the points that have been made by Mr Mallard, by the Rt Hon Winston Peters, and by the Hon David Parker are made genuinely, but they are, in fact, challenging a ruling that I have made, and that in itself will lead to disorder. I have made my decision—[Interruption] Order! No. I have made my decision. My decision stands. But—

    It was Winston Peters who first adds the word legal :

    Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First): I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. New Zealand First wishes you to know that if your ruling is that we cannot see the legal opinion on which you make your judgment, then we are going to boycott this Parliament for the time being.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 620 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Brent Jackson,

    I guess to a lawyer like Peters "advice" must imply one of your colleagues got paid.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Sacha,

    I guess to a lawyer like Peters “advice” must imply one of your colleagues got paid.

    Not unreasonably, either, when it's a matter that intersects with operation of statute law.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Not unreasonably, either, when it’s a matter that intersects with operation of statute law.

    I thought it was blindingly obvious that the Speaker was referring to advice from the Office of the Clerk.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    And if so, why not say that explicitly when challenged on it?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    I thought it was blindingly obvious that the Speaker was referring to advice from the Office of the Clerk.

    Possibly to you. To those of us who're semi-dedicated political junkies who lack the deep procedural knowledge, however, it wasn't in the least bit obvious.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    I thought it was clearly advice from the Clerk.

    (And I don't particularly think that the Speaker should release advice from the Clerk. It's the Speaker's ruling, not the Clerk's, and the Speaker is the one responsible.)

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Gabor Toth,

    He's just resigned as a Minister!!!

    Wellington • Since Dec 2006 • 137 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Gabor Toth,

    WaTCH HIM RESIGN AS AN MP also - and then, the Nats will be quite squeezed in
    their sweet and tender parts (I have no idea what or where these might be, never thinking they actually had any.) I am speaking of the parliamentary party of course, not of any individual Nat.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to BenWilson,

    Or to ensure that politics gets even more bought out by the rich, for whom the MPs salary is but a down-payment on this years second Ferrari.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    It would suit National to call an election this year rather than next, given the way the polls are trending.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I don't think it would suit the Maori Party, especially if they lose badly in Ikaroa-Rawhiti. They'll be wanting to keep their bums in the limos for as long as possible, so will give National support on anything up to the Treaty of Waitangi (Mere Nullity) Reversion Bill.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    My inner headline writer is thrilled (and in tribute to the late Frank of the Dom): "Dunne like a dog's dinner" . I suppose he'll be retiring to Dunshaggin soon.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    Peter Dunne - "United Future" should have been called "Peter First" -
    I would have been comfortable if he had done the “honourable thing” rather than resign. He has been consistent in his unwavering support of the expansion of gambling and the proliferation of alcohol – it is a pity he has not gone entirely from the house.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1224 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    If Key's really ballsy he'll call a snap election now. It's quite high risk though, and he won't.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    But at least we got the GCSB report a wee bit earlier.........Thanks Peter.....

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

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