Hard News: When that awful thing happens
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It may mean because of the law change, he lost it without the new bit of paper. People can't always afford the changes.
No, they can't. And at $200 for a 10-year licence, the new system was a lot more expensive than the old. But that financial hardship was anticipated at the time, and efforts made to encourage firearms owners who weren't going to get one of the new licences to surrender their arms. He chose not to do so, and not to re-licence, for reasons known only to himself. Maybe he didn't want to have to give up his fully-automatic rifles and submit to the vastly-more-expensive requirements of owning military-style semi-automatic weapons. He wouldn't have been the only one, I'm sure. Getting an 'E' endorsement on a firearms licence is pretty expensive, and the storage requirements are much stricter than for an ordinary rifle.
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I assume you'll be able to show where I have criticised any officer of the law or the police in general.
When is someone going to shoot the criminal so Napier and New Zealand can get back to life?
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AndWhy are the police, no matter how "unlightly" they work, charging a person for protecting themselves, their family and their property? This case will destroy that family and undermines the economy.
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Shall I continue? nah, I'd get tired of writing about it. -
I mean real solutions that wouldn't have left one officer dead and another three people in hospital.
Sorry but if it was legalised only one would have been there waiting for Jan, to return home from walking the dog. Holmwood ( excuse my memory on spelling his name) was only getting a bit of noxious weed, havin' a cuppa tea, chatting to the girlfriend.
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It's not a good sign when someone mischaracterises their own position in an argument..
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...don't think raids on peoples "castles" (brother says he thought of his home that way.) are routine.
He must be the first man ever to think that.
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Dratted simultaneous posting - I even checked that time.
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Arguing for cannabis law reform off the back of this incident risks being as distateful as Mr O'Connor using it to argue for "more Tasers, faster".
Fortunate your taste isn't mandatory.
There's always a time for that debate
Republican Arnie thinks sohttp://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/2388882/Schwarzenegger-says-California-needs-pot-debate
I see some people losing terms like 'nutjob' and "mental illness". But I can't find way in the way of information discussing what mental illness he had other than 'very angry'. Anger I guess in part aimed at a repressive society.
Which reminded me of something I heard recently. Is it true in New Zealand that it is illegal or drink a bottle of beer on most streets in many towns?
Looking at the general make up of the people, which would be closer to the truth?
New Zealanders are natural conformists, happy to tow the line and follow unquestioning the edits of authority?
or
New Zealanders enjoy their freedom(s) and there is a vein in the cultural tradition ascribing value to DIY self sufficiency, independence and mild rebellion in the name of freedom of expression.
when we plug the end of the hose, aren't the wayward squirts more random and virile.
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much in the way of..
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to drink...
edicts...
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Ok Sacha, now I'm confused. :)
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A S,
I've watched the discussion today with a lot of interest, and I'd just like to chip in to support what Matthew has said today about the unsuccessful (and expensive) nature of registers.
The police already have a register of restricted weapons, and have had for at least 17 years, which did nothing to prevent recent events. At least two of the rifles used in Napier were illegal MSSA rifles, which are required to be listed on the police register. That, to me at least, is a fairly comprehensive demonstration that registers don't work as everyone appears to expect them to.
The points Matthew makes about the difficulty of getting the special permission to own MSSA rifles, or other restricted weapons is very well made.
The process of vetting associated with getting such an endorsement is exhaustive (including interviews with close family members, independent referees from shooting organisations etc. checks for any history of mental illness, criminal background checks etc) not to mention the extra $1000 or so the applicant will have to shell out to purchase a Police approved safe to store their rifles in.
As I said in another thread, the laws we already have are excellent. Sadly, no law in the world can stop someone who is determined to break it, which was tragically proved in Napier.
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Jeremy, then propose a workable solution that would actually have made a difference
I can't see why as a community it would be impossible to start addressing the question of unregistered guns. Like any problem it would start with education and an attitudle change to the posssesion,purchasing and collecting of firearms from the community. If we can pick up the phone and dob in a tinnie house surely we can have individuals in the know alert the law of arsenal buliding. Someone sells them.
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<quote> New Zealanders are natural conformists, happy to tow the line and follow unquestioning the edits of authority?
or
New Zealanders enjoy their freedom(s) and there is a vein in the cultural tradition ascribing value to DIY self sufficiency, independence and mild rebellion in the name of freedom of expression.
Well said, it's both. -
Ooops.
New Zealanders are natural conformists, happy to tow the line and follow unquestioning the edits of authority?
or
New Zealanders enjoy their freedom(s) and there is a vein in the cultural tradition ascribing value to DIY self sufficiency, independence and mild rebellion in the name of freedom of expression.
Well said, it's both.
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I lost my mind reading your first reply Sofie
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Ok Sacha, now I'm confused.
I was responding to Steve's post about Mr Dexter's self-contradiction ( "you'll be able to show where I have criticised" - well, yes, actually).
Between when I refreshed the page and my post appeared, yours intervened. Uncanny. Trying to balance time spent quoting with posting. Unsuccessfully, in that instance.
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Thought I'd better clarify that before it pushed Mark over the edge. :)
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A S,
If we can pick up the phone and dob in a tinnie house surely we can have individuals in the know alert the law of arsenal buliding. Someone sells them.
So, what would constitute an arsenal? 2 guns, 4 guns, 50 guns? Should people only be allowed one firearm? What about people who hunt different game and need different firearms to do it effectively and humanely? What about competitive shooters, should they be restricted to a single class of competition?
What about people who collect antique firearms, should we tell them they can't do that anymore if they have more than the required number?
How does it impact on shops that cater to the hunting community? Do they keep arsenals too?
What types of firearms count towards an arsenal? Is it just scary looking black ones, or does granddad's old shotgun that can't be fired anymore count towards it?
I'm not being facetious, these are the types of problems that you'd immediately run into going down such a track. It really isn't as simple as people make out.
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I lost my mind reading your first reply Sofie
What? You've been mindless since November 2007? :)
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What? You've been mindless since November 2007? :)
Dash it all yes.
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Like Russell’s mother, I turned the media machine off. The standard of journalism is substandard, there was a lot of enthusiasm for the words like cordon, arsenal, lock down, etc, etc What little substance there was quickly got lost in BS.
The 24 hours news cycle is often twenty-three hours of drivel and one hour of news.
Swine Flu
Swine Flu
Swine Flu
Angelina & Brad
Swine Flu
Swine Flu
Swine Flu
Swine FluWhen executing a search warrant on a drug dealer’s house I would have thought it would be standard practice for the police to be armed.
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Jan was 51. He doesn't sound like a timebomb when you hear his friends talk about him. He hadn't exploded before that .He was an angry man , who had far too many weapons and snapped due to policing methods that let's face it fuck off a lot of peolpe off.
Huh?
Jeremy, I've seen and heard plenty in the news to indicate that he was, at the very least, quick to anger, and someone you didn't cross. His friends seem oddly blithe about him tipping into a homicidal rage because someone came to his house.
On other hand, I haven't seen any evidence that the warrant executed at his house was unusual or improper in any way.
On the other hand people have suggested in this discussion that all search warrants should be executed as if there were maximum peril. Quite apart from the cost, that would engender an enormous amount of ill-will amongst the public and in the media. It would be bad.
That said, I pretty much agree with Mikaere's argument on cannabis law reform. It just don't think it's got much to to with the "methods" employed by police in this case.
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That said, I pretty much agree with Mikaere's argument on cannabis law reform. It just don't think it's got much to to with the "methods" employed by police in this case.
Yeah I Agree. Police did a damn good job. Does seem strange though that they were searching for cannabis and not an illegal weapon collection.
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When executing a search warrant on a drug dealer’s house I would have thought it would be standard practice for the police to be armed.
Why? It's frequently unnecessary, especially for low-end pot dealers who aren't otherwise known to be dangerous. As said before, arming up for a warrant isn't just a case of a couple of plods strapping on Glocks and knocking on the door. It's a highly organised exercise involving planning, coordination, and a goodly degree of command and control. It's not ad hoc, because that's a good way to have cops shooting at other cops. It's also not a small-scale event. Look at some of the news articles about coordinated armed raids across a city, and count up the numbers involved. The average is about 10 per property, sometimes more, and that's accounting for some degree of economisation through scale by shifting oversight back up the chain of command.
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Does seem strange though that they were searching for cannabis and not an illegal weapon collection.
Having read that he had "a room in the garage" for growing dope, I wouldn't be in the least surprised if he had a hydroponics operation that caught the eye of his power supplier.
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