Big wild beasts.

Uh, thought that was the big foot :)

heh, what about "No engine Braking"

Similar signs had me baffled too, but if you stay a night within earshot of say, SH1, you will hear odd roarings in the distance, especially in rural parts, like wild beasts clearing their throats. Big wild beasts.

Anyway, I reckon those roarings are…

why do tourists ever come here?

To share a dram.

"The Bad Hobbit" Horror/Porn/Thriller/Slasher – options are endless.

Further- why do tourists ever come here?

To see the Hobbits. They leave disappointed.

glory be, would that have made a mess of any hoper-

Why on earth do locals ever venture out their doors?
Further- why do tourists ever come here?

To get to the other side?

Why on earth do locals ever venture out their doors?
Further- why do tourists…

yrs
Rhode Sines
Dislodged Masonry Ahead

Captain Synchrotron.That's what you are. :)

And what's wrong with a cul de sac? Eh? Oh, hang on. I just live in a dead end street. As you were. I was getting above myself.

Ray:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuhVccHBGaE

Roman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iICFCs45wh4

Poles apart? There does seem to be a correlation…

And what's wrong with a cul de sac? Eh? Oh, hang on. I just live in a dead end street. As you were. I was getting above myself.

Oh, how we laughed :)

"Christ, we've got to look out for the paraplegics too now?"

Its worse than that. He was a Cul de Sac dweller.
Does Russell have guns?.

Is it creating the 'other'? It couldn't be someone normal , he had to be different.

Spot on.

WTF? – "This has happened before. This isn't an isolated incident. In February there were a couple of shots in the night and police were at his house the next morning."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2547859/Paraplegic-gunman-known-to-police

The solution ain't hard. User pays, psyc test, firearms competency test & registar of firearms.

Aside from the likelihood…

This must be a definition of "safe" that I am unfamiliar with.

I kept thinking of Emma's idea of substituting "people" or "person" for these meaningless when not downright bizarre qualifiers.

How about this one ?

The order permitted the father to see his daughter only "on the condition that [the child] is not to be in the company of [the stripper]…

Giovanni – agreed wtf does a chair have to do with it?

Is it creating the 'other'? It couldn't be someone normal , he had to be different.

(And what would the message be, anyhow? "Christ, we've got to…

Ah – that good bloke test, again. "He seemed a decent sort of fellow, he didn't say very much. He didn't seem unstable at all."

WTF? – "This has happened before. This isn't an isolated incident. In February there were a…

A S did you have a malt sandwitch for lunch?

No. Should we ask the same question of you?

"Molenaar had been growing and dealing cannabis for more than 10 years

That's a long time for any business. Stressful?

Molenaar was a legal firearms 'collector' and all that entails at the same time as being a drug dealer.

"Molenaar had been growing and dealing cannabis for more than 10 years, Mr Drew said."

2002 was the year old firearms licences lapsed with the new system coming into being.

Was…

"Molenaar had been growing and dealing cannabis for more than 10 years, Mr Drew said."

And the funny thing is, Molenaar was strongly anti-P:

His loathing for drug-dealing gang members came to a head in 2003 when his brother, Johan, reportedly killed himself after an alleged battle with the methamphetamine…

"Molenaar had been growing and dealing cannabis for more than 10 years, Mr Drew said."

2002 was the year old firearms licences lapsed with the new system coming into being.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10573821

Matthew, from your link, it was interesting to see John Howat described as an expert.

Well, John Howat would certainly be more of an expert than Alpers. Howat at least seems to know which end of a firearm is which.

OMG – " And, lastly, firearms crime is not a…

"The question I would ask is who is…

Gunlaw everywhere may be shit, probably is? If you and me were cops should we…

Of course observing the existing laws and having those faceless beuracrats tracking down expired lifetime license holders could be a good start too.

You mean as they've been doing? From 50,000 people who didn't renew their licences in 2002, they've whittled it down to around 1,000 who they "can't find". That…

Easy corrections to current gun laws would be a psyc test, raise the age to 18yrs and have MSSAs & handguns stored in an armoury at a Club/Police Station/NZDF. Of course observing the existing laws and having those faceless beuracrats tracking…

Of all the ridiculous claims made in this thread, your statement that the military can prowl the streets with impunity is now topping them all for general idiocy, not to mention its offensive suggestions about the integrity of several of our social organs.

Wait, you weren't getting into "neener neener,…

maybe the Clash would be a bit too provocative?

if YOU think those way-overdressed, totally gussied-up dudes who descend upon every scene of armed crime do not shout with every new creak of their armour…

i did not "take" anything. I was MERELY trying to think for a moment outside of the box

Well it took you five 'Post reply's in a row to merely try to think for a moment. If you didn't take something, perhaps you should.

This is absolute rubbish. Some of the comments/rumours on the radio were absolutely untrue. This caused a lot of concern/worry for people listening.

Yeah, i very quickly stopped listening and phoned family in Napier for a better picture as some of them live on the hill.

As for the MM,…

speaking to a few friend about napier I'm
reliably told its a Mongrel Mob strong hold and to try dealing there you would have to be a very HARD nut'

So it would appear in the real world…

With regards to Radio being the 'STAR' – keeping the story vibrant and real

This is absolute rubbish. Some of the comments/rumours on the radio were absolutely untrue. This caused a lot of concern/worry for people…

make of the near quasi-deification of fallen policeman taking place throughout the MSM?

Isn't it just the near quasi-deification found at the funeral of any reasonably decent bloke? Somewhat (understandably) amplified by the nature of both his job and his death undertaking that job.

It would be a bit tough for them to come out with something like "He was a lazy bastard who always cut corners and he's no real loss to the force".
Also patently untrue, from what little I know about it. He sounds like he was…

Doesn't all of this do nothing so much as put an ever bigger premium, as it…

I love coffee, occaisional cigars or a pipe (4-5 times a month); chocolate, single malts, & good wine. They're drugs. I'm sweet with that. And for those who enjoy a bit of cannabis now & then – why not.

Islander,
Then why not advocate for legalizing cannabis so that it has the…

Steve Parks – I really thought the use of a Registry would be self evident as the comparison to cars was priviously stated by Alpers and so left it out to avoid repition.

I consider my evidence based arguement more persuasive than an opinion based one, but over to you.

…

Repeated assertion does not a logical argument make. Why do almost all countries apart from NZ and the mad Americans have such a system?

And most of those countries have much higher rates of firearms crime than NZ, too. Higher rates of illegal ownership, higher rates of intentional firearms-related deaths,…

having skillfully avoided any comment on my comment

What comment? I can't be bothered reading all your foamings..

let me ask you a question: have you any idea at all how many guns came into ANZ after the 2 major wars our service-people were involved in? Or the 3 (minor…

I don't have any philosophical problems with requiring gun registration

Neither do I. My objections are entirely practical, and fiscal. I hate seeing taxpayer money wasted on exercises in futility, that have been demonstrated as futile in other countries. Politicians are meant to be beyond the stage of mental development…

Given that there's…

we have no real problem with firearms

I think that's the point. For a country that is armed to the teeth, we still prefer to bludgeon, beat or stab our fellow citizens to death. We have a lot of guns, but we don't have a gun culture.
Sadly, boneheads like…

It is relatively easy to buy and then smuggle ex-military weapons from Eastern Europe into the UK.

In this case, NZ's geographical isolation works in it's favour. However, I do not think…

And yet even in the UK, criminals don't.

That article is scary. With a population that's about 60% of NZ's, and under some of the most draconian firearms laws in the world, Manchester had over 3,000 incidents of firearms crime in 15 months and gunshots in an urban area were…

Are You ?

nz native, I don't have the energy to respond in detail to your infantile insults. You know nothing about me, my background, or my life experiences.

You lost all credibility as soon as you started to throw insults. So please go away.

Are you becoming my personal stalker, Islander?

What are you, twelve?

Prohibition distorted and shaped his sickness into a fortified stronghold.

Molenaar had an arsenal, macho delusions of grandeur – as evidenced by said arsenal – and a short temper.
The cannabis search warrant was just the trigger. If it hadn't been that, it might have been getting pulled over with…

Gun registries won't work immediately. Over the years though, most guns will fall into the hands of people that don't want to go to jail for the sake of a bit of paperwork.

The cost of setting up and maintaining a registry was mentioned upthread. It was quite a lot…

You seem to have NO comprehension of how common violent home invasions are amongst the drug fraternity.

Are you such a fuckwit that you think dealers and…

It could equally be argued that excessive drug use "distorted and shaped his sickness into a fortified stronghold". But I won't make that argument, because I just don't know.

People commit violent crimes for a whole range of…

Cannabis prohibition allowed the physicall manifestation of that sickness to reach an explosive ending.

Prohibition distorted and shaped his sickness into a fortified stronghold.

To absolve prohibiton from the progress and direction of Jans sickness is kinda sick itself ...........................

and concentrate efforts" etc.?

So, WTF are you commenting?

A S – pretty sure the Police have confirmed that these weapons were held by him legally, but hey those silly laws.

I'm totally mystified by this comment, by the way. A legal collector breaks the law, and you want more laws? Why would he suddenly not break those laws…

I really thought the use of a Registry would be self evident as the comparison to cars was priviously stated by Alpers and so left it out to avoid repition.

Hmmm. Car registry exists to allow govt to collect registration fee for building new roads etc. Firearms cause little wear…

I consider my evidence based arguement more persuasive than an opinion based one, but over to you.

What evidence? Please, show me evidence that firearms registries aren't a colossal waste of time and money. You've got Canada and Australia to use as examples, so go and find me the proof.…

I consider my evidence based arguement more persuasive than an opinion based one, but over to you.…

Gun Collectors like this guy Hot Water Beach gun collector John Mabey, 43 have put many lethal weapons into our community and it simply must stop.

umm, yeah. Coz his collection was registered, as required by law. Getting a category 'C' endorsement is pretty tough. Yet again, we have a…

If you get your guns pinched, you're obliged to immediately report that and the cops will be round. If it turns out you actually sold them then (like people who pretend their partner was driving teh car to get off speeding tickets) you'll be in jail.

You mean like, oh,…

and one can never, ever, underestimate the power of prohibition, least of all taboo, on the ongoing formation of a human psyche, now can one?

You know, the prohibition on taking human life is really starting to get to me. If they don't change the law soon, I might snap…

If you get…

and one can never, ever, underestimate the power of prohibition, least of all taboo, on the ongoing formation of a human psyche, now can one?

If the registry showed you had nine guns, the cops could drop by to verify they were in the locked cabinet where they were meant to be.

If they weren't and you had no reasonable excuse, you would be prosecuted. I think that just as most people rego their car,…

If the registry showed you had nine guns, the cops could drop by to verify they were in the locked cabinet where they were meant to be.

If they weren't and you had no reasonable excuse, you would be prosecuted. I think that just as most people rego their car,…

I am in agreement that
a)a limited amount of cannabis could be grown – or possessed – for personal use.
b)an awful lot of valuable police time is taken up with trying to block or curtail small-time users or growers.

Note: I dont think a 'garage-ful' of cannabis…

What would a registry achieve?

If the registry showed you had nine guns, the cops could drop by to verify they were in the locked cabinet where they were meant to be.

If they weren't and you had no reasonable excuse, you would be prosecuted. I think that just as…

Lets recap here. Our laws are workable, because the Police did nothing when Jans lifetime firearms & collectors licenses lapsed under a new system, ultimately resulting in multipul shootings & death.

Let's just conveniently ignore the blindingly obvious fact that what Molenaar did was illegal then, and remains illegal now.

Let's also…

Rather than just stating it as if it is obviously some kind of solution when Matthew has repeatedly given clear reasons why it would make little to no difference.

It's the corrosive effect that idiots like Mr Dexter have on what is acceptable argument style. Along those lines, Paul Buchanan…

License all owners & Registar of all weapons...

Any chance those of you still putting forth the "Register all weapons" idea could actually take the time to offer some sort of counter-argument to Matthew Poole? Rather than just stating it as if it is obviously some kind of solution when Matthew…

Lets recap here. Our laws are workable, because the Police did nothing when Jans lifetime firearms & collectors licenses lapsed under a new system, ultimately resulting in multipul shootings & death.

Gun Collectors like this guy Hot Water Beach gun collector John Mabey, 43 have put…

I actually have no big worries about the second amendment, the right to bare arms.

What has Michelle Obama to do with any of this?

If I got a gun license, I could buy guns without anyone knowing what I've bought, right?

You could buy rifles and shotguns, yes. If you wanted to buy hand guns or "military-style semi-automatic" rifles, you need to get extra endorsements on the licence, pay more money, be vetted even…

When did everyone getting one become part of the plan? I thought the idea was they would replace the use of firearms in certain situations?

I consider persecuting people for a victim less crime improper but then I think oppression is a bad thing.

I have no problem with that. But it should be directed at parliament, not at the police. Particularly not at a time when three of them were shot for trying to…

I could then sell them to random crims, swap them for weed, bury them in stashes around the place, etc, and unless I got caught in the act nobody would be the wiser?…

His friends seem oddly blithe about him tipping into a homicidal rage because someone came to his house.
On other hand, I haven't seen any evidence that the warrant executed at his house was unusual or improper in any way.
On the other hand people have suggested in this discussion…

But as you just said that is a tactic they deploy, and being on the receiving end of exactly that ( and having to repair the door afterwards, when they got it wrong) can lead to resentment of the police.

Wait. The guy snapped because sometimes when the police raid…

Incidentally, he maintained a wide and varied circle of friends – some of who were recreational users. His only request was that they didn't smoke when he was in the room.

I was talking to my mother the last time she was up about the old pubs in Timaru. In…

The Aussie ban, has by many estimates driven between 400,000 and 600,000 semi-auto rifles underground, and not into the crusher as the aussies had intended.

And Australia is hardly a gun-violence-free utopia as a result. http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,25336693-2862,00.htm

Utter mischaracterisations and over-reactions to the most banal of comments?

I agree that your comments are banal, Grant.

...never mind the tone of my post.

It wasn't just the tone, buddy, it was also the content.

How do people know in this thread that the police doing their routine 'lets fuck up the life of a cannabis dealer/grower' were not gloating at him and letting him know he…

The police tend to self-isolate from communities. How many of you have a cop in your circle of friends, or expect to meet one at a party?

Members of both my family and my wife's extended family are current or former police. One of the former said something interesting to…

Well, despite the vitriol directed at Grant, it seems that the police did shoot at, and hit, the gunman on Thursday when they had an opportunity.

The 'correctness' or otherwise of Grants views is entirely beside the point.

Vitriol is being directed at him because:

1) It is painfully and…

What they didn't do was just blaze away when they didn't have a target.

And that seems to be Grant's problem. That they didn't do that was, if I understand him correctly, an unnecessary level of molly-coddling of Molenaar's safety.

I might have been immoderate in my choice of words, but I think this actually weakens Grant's case rather than strengthens it.

I tried to make this point upthread. When they had a shot at Molenaar, they took it. What they didn't do was just blaze away when they didn't…

I just want to point out, again, that our current laws in this area are by world standards outstanding, depsite anything Mr Alpers says to the contrary.

Precisely. I'm pretty sure I've seen comments from senior police officers from other countries that amount to "Your laws are sane and workable.…

Also earlier in this thread Russell said that Jan shot the police "in cold blood" , I disagree, he did it in red hot enraged blood. He did not coldly climb a watch tower and start killing people.

This was a prohibition crime, prohibition made the…

A S – military style semi-automatics (MSSAs) and handguns
http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/1997/review-of-firearms-control/

And yes I'm talking a total ban in private hands.

The Thorpe report represented best thinking in 1997. The steps it recommended have not worked elsewhere.

The Canadian registry has been abandoned as unworkable after wasting a $billion or so…

And yes I'm talking a total ban in private hands.

Because, like, banning firearms is just so effective at keeping them away from those who would use them with nefarious intent. Like Jan Molenaar, for example, who as the proud holder of a well-expired firearms licence shouldn't have possessed any…

The position that the only reason an officer was killed is because…

Which suggests that they're, y'know, professionals, and not action heroes somehow held back by PC lily-livered authorities a la Die Hard?

Agreed.

As for the 'drug laws caused it' approach, consider the likely reaction of Molenaar if a police officer turned up at his door asking him if he had…

The police tend to self-isolate from communities. How many of you have a cop in your circle of friends, or expect to meet one at a party?

Every day when I was a kid :)

He hadn't exploded before that .He was an angry man , who had far too…

Well, despite the vitriol directed at Grant, it seems that the police did shoot at, and hit, the gunman on Thursday when they had an opportunity.

I might have been immoderate in my choice of words, but I think this actually weakens Grant's case rather than strengthens it. Seems like…

And yes I'm talking a total ban in private hands.

It does look like a total systemic failure by successive govts and Police to follow up on their responsibility and of course the de-registar has proved itself a total failure.…

Police Association president Greg O'Connor told Radio NZ he hoped the Napier shootings would show those opposed to Taser use that police did need more tools at their disposal.

A Taser wouldn't have made the slightest bit of…

A police officer fires the two shots at where he is believed to be standing and hits him. Molenaar retreats inside and there is…

Have you guys never dealt with simple concepts before?

The police are not armed. They could never have achieved what I believe should have happened. The Armed Offenders Squad is trained and policy should reflect that training.

The AOS are well-equipped, but contrary to what's in the movies, their bulletproof…

But would it stop it from happening in future?

That's the chief benefit – allowing proper policing of whether those whose licenses lapse or are disqualified have disposed of all their toys.

Of course it won't stop it happening in future. At least one of the firearms used by Molenaar…

Age does not confer wisdom or restraint. There are so…

But he did spend six years as a frontline policeman.

Yeah, but Grant's seen Die Hard, like, six times . And he's got a copy of Beverly Hills Cop that his big brother pirated for him from a mate. The audio's not very good though, so it's a bit difficult…

I do think attitudes to gun ownership and use have changed. One of the most useless 'skills' I acquired at secondary school…

So the police didn't know but the Herald did. Did they have a man on the inside?

His friends seem oddly blithe about him tipping into a homicidal rage because someone came to his house.

Sure, I just can't get my head around why a guy who lives half a century suddenly unleashes that rage.I would have thought age would have bought some control but of course…

Do you mean my single shot Martini-Enfield from 1896?

Is that shaken or stirred? 1896 ...must have a good head by now.

it's my duty as a citizen of Jeremy's utopian society to dob you in to the appropriate authorities forthwith :P

Oh, cool , a utopian society named after me.

Fact v Fiction

Details released by the police yesterday make it clear that the Weekend Herald's front-page report on Saturday was right.

Despite widespread claims in other media on Saturday morning that we were wrong and Jan Molenaar was still…

"Sure it would have been heroic and made for a great Mark Sainsbury interview had an officer gone charging in and pulled Snee to safety. But unfortunately it would have been shocking police work."

Oh, dear God. Is this the best PA has to offer?

Not really, Grant. Nick, who…

I'm starting to think allowing anyone to own pistols & military style weapons is an assult on my freedom.

Just a minor definitional gripe, 'military style weapons'? Do you mean Islander's WWI .303? Do you mean my single shot Martini-Enfield from 1896? Both were military rifles. Do you mean every bolt…

Grant suggested that police have a policy of rescuing fallen comrades above anything else. That's pretty micro.

I did? Seems rather unlike something I would say. I did manage to say this, __"'Making sure nobody else dies' should not extend privileges to the criminal. Police policy in this case will…

In NZ drug dealers and manufacturers have drugs, lots of cash and weapons including guns.

If you are going to search a drug dealers house, a tinnie house, or P lab for that matter it would be wise to take…

I'm starting to think allowing anyone to own pistols & military style weapons is an assult on my freedom.

They're already pretty much illegal, except for "collectors" (which means an unhealthy obsession) and clubs (which tightly control them, and that's OK).

I'll wait with interest to see what comes out about Jans Collectors license and what actions were taken once that lapsed.

When executing a search warrant on a drug dealer’s house I would have thought it would be standard practice for the police to be armed.

Why? We Are Not America, and nor do we want to be.

No, it wouldn't fix it. It might've fixed it if a register had existed prior to the change, but it wouldn't have fixed things retroactively.

But would it stop it from happening in future?

That's the chief benefit – allowing proper policing of whether those whose licenses lapse or are…

"I had to be prepared. So I put on my DVD of Die Hard III and watched it. Then I got in the car and drove up to the police cordon with my hunting knife in my back pocket.""

Nz native, the tone of your post suggests that the police brought this on themselves. They didn't. The only person to blame for this is Jan Molenaar. Several posters have already pointed…

Bruce Thorpe: frankly no. You have read that into what I wrote. I was listing my collections -which could be described as 'arsenals' by journalists- as a way of showing why I am uneasy about the *term*, 'arsenal.'

Oh, yes. Their days grow ever shorter, clearly.

I think I figured out why

Shooting possums is not a very effective means of pest control, and ditto for stoats, rats and ginger.

Ginger? I know redheads can be a bit short tempered sometimes, but I didn't know they'd been classified as pests!!

Oh, yes. Their days grow ever shorter, clearly.

Basically the policy over all else is to protect life and property and they do this through many hundreds of procedures for many hundreds of different situations they are expected to encounter: key…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ck2ZqL_ca4

Shooting possums is not a very effective means of pest control, and ditto for stoats, rats and ginger.

Ginger? I know redheads can be a bit short tempered sometimes, but I didn't know they'd been classified as pests!!

Shooting possums is not a very effective means of pest control

You just wait until the pine trees are in blossom, and possums come from miles around at night to feast on them, and you go out there with a big torch, or a 4WD with luverly big headlights, and…

Shooting possums is not a very effective means of pest control, and ditto for stoats, rats and ginger.

I also think the myth of the kiwi outdoors bloke or good keen fisherman is…

Sofie- I'd call it a rather usual set of equipment* for rural dwellers-

*except for the edged stuff. Maybe.

This was not a routine drug bust ……….. from Jan’s point of view.

It might have been another ho – hum lets go fuck over a stoner/ pot grower lark by the 4 police men involved but these ‘routine’ drug searches are always anything but ‘routine’ to the…

I guess it's possible that things might not have gone according to plan. Do you think it's possible that things could have gone according to plan?

It might've. But since we don't actually know whether the police sniper team had the opportunity to take that particular shot, I recommend that…

I'm sure journalists would…