Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: What the kids do

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  • Rich of Observationz,

    One of TripMe's members has even gone to so far as encouraging users to harden up and deal with the odd panic attack rather than adding to the ED statistics and spoiling it for everyone else.

    I'm not about to click that link at work.

    But there might be a modicum of logic in that. Getting the user f..d up to some degree is what drugs are *meant* to do. It's by design. People shouldn't trouble busy medics with something that's going to pass (un)naturally. (There might a significance in the way panicked reports from casualty departments tend to be from backwaters like Nelson - the average K-Rd kid and their mates are probably better able to accept that they're just tripping-out and don't require medical attention).

    Those angel people do a good job, too, but I haven't seen any for a while.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Without wishing to unfairly generalise, I had an interesting conversation a little while ago with a friend who lives in a wealthy inner-city suburb -- and whose own children, therefore, hang out with the children of the fairly wealthy.

    His view was that quite a few of those parents didn't appear to enjoy or exercise the responsibilities of adulthood.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    But there might be a modicum of logic in that. Getting the user f..d up to some degree is what drugs are *meant* to do. It’s by design. People shouldn’t trouble busy medics with something that’s going to pass (un)naturally.

    And the rejoinder was salient too. 13 and 14 year-olds coming smack-bang into a pretty serious high won’t have the skills to tell what’s going on, or to help each other.

    I recall a few years back having some grass oil a friend had made.

    “Was that possibly a bit much you gave me?” I asked.

    “Don’t know. No one’s ever had that much before.”

    Great. It took all my hard-won bongmaster skills to get myself down from there. I can see how someone inexperienced could panic and want to go to hospital. Apparently it happens quite a bit with vaporisers too – people ignore warnings when they buy them and get way higher than they intended.

    But anyway, if the same long-term risks pertain to synthetic cannabinoids as to cannabis, it’s just really not something that adolescents should be doing. As I said, that’s a medical objection, not a moral one.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Russell Brown,

    His view was that quite a few of those parents didn't appear to enjoy or exercise the responsibilities of adulthood.

    Yet up until recently they've managed to stay out of the wrong headlines for various reasons. I suspect partly because wealthy parents have been able to buy, spin and (old-boy) network their way out of bad publicity or the courtroom. 'Proles' who engage in the exact same have no such resources.

    If there's one thing worse than state-imposed segregation, it's private segregation.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Clint Fern, in reply to Sacha,

    he would sell (knowingly)

    Are you missing a :"not" in there?

    Thanks for correcting that Sacha.

    Nelson • Since Jul 2010 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Clint Fern,

    welcome. crowdsourcing, innit

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I’ve been having a look at that Australian document now I have a little time.

    I don’t like how many vasoconstrictors like Oxedrine/Synephrine there are in those pills. That stuff’s not good for you – although it’s probably worse for old folks than it is for healthy kids.

    Ditto for methylmethcathinone – aka mephedrone. which is in the Australian-made Urban Shamans capsules (they wouldn’t be legal here, thanks to the analog provisions of the MoDA).

    And Theophylline – which can reach toxic levels when taken with fatty meals.

    You’re better off with proper drugs, frankly.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Clint Fern,

    Thanks for correcting that Sacha.

    Fixed.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Clint Fern, in reply to Russell Brown,

    A part of the internet where you're not mocked for mistakes - good to see stereotypes being challenged.

    Speaking of which, on my recent visit to Auckland I was totally let down. Everyone was bloody friendly, it was sunny and the traffic flowed fine. Sorry, been waiting a few weeks for a chance to segue into that.</threadjack>

    Nelson • Since Jul 2010 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand, in reply to Andre Alessi,

    Time to invest in a mandrill?

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2560 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    'tis the season for moral panics. Had three calls from journos over the past 10 days, asking for my opinion on L. Gaga, youth drinking and girl-on-girl fighting. I tell them, 'don't ask me; ask my 17 year old daughter' but they don't take my advice.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2560 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Clint Fern,

    A part of the internet where you're not mocked for mistakes - good to see stereotypes being challenged

    If it's mocking you want, we can do that too /PAS points and laughs

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    'tis the season for moral panics.

    Instead of helping the nation's youth, we seemingly want to conscript them instead.

    Welcome to Mazengarb v2.0.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    Time to invest in a mandrill?

    "Sounds like a lot of fun, doesn't it? If you want to be part of the summer of death."

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • uroskin,

    If we reclassified King's College as a South Auckland school there wouldn't be a reason for moral panic.

    Waiheke Island • Since Feb 2007 • 178 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    I tell them, 'don't ask me; ask my 17 year old daughter' but they don't take my advice

    if she's the one we met, they're fools

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Clint Fern,

    Sorry

    Never apologise for a compliment :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    I wish they would ask her. She may give them a refreshingly different perspective, being the fantastic young woman she is.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    If this site had favourites/like buttons, I would "like" this comment of RoO's about a squillion times.

    Me too.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Rich Lock,

    MoralPanikk-2011,

    And I would use the "like" on this too

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    The problem has really arisen through Kronic’s owners pushing it into suburban dairies and, more recently, the priceless promotion of panicky media stories.

    Advocating restriction the retail opportunities doesn't seem to be any kind of solution. Whether it's alcohol, legal highs, hard illicit drugs, I'm not convinced that the point of sale is as relevant to dealing with the issue as better education, media reporting and socialization. Perhaps 5-10 years ago that could have helped to minimize the exposure, but this horse has bolted.

    It sounds like you're a good parent Russell, from the sounds of it your family benefits from excellent informed communication and a healthy degree of mutual trust. Therein lies any long term solution.

    Dude, you probably will use pot at some point, and we can always talk about that, but you have to believe me that the science says it’s a really dumb idea right now.

    As simple as it is, that's where it's at: Opening up that dialogue (as you have Russell) is a very real and workable solution. Good on you.

    Banning this or that location from sale seems little more than diluted prohibition. In China, corner convenience stores traditionally sell cigarettes, beer and 57% rice wine (1$NZ for 600ml), ID-less transactions, and there aren't paralytic or even drunk youths on the streets, nor are their 12 year olds smoking in the bike sheds. Like anywhere, I'm sure it does happen, but more often than not the problem can be traced to family discord, poor examples, inattentive or overly judgemental parents.

    To make any kind of dent into these issues, we'll always lag behind as long as we focus on what it is, where it can be purchased, what not to do, instead of focusing on our own attitudes , educated how to use (whatever) responsibly (rather than being scared into surreptitious behaviour), and of course minimizing the health risks.

    An analogy, At a party, a bottle of single malt whiskey on the table, untouched, holds your gaze. Suddenly the host and her younger brother Timson appear, grab the table and move it six feet further afield (to increase the size of the dance floor). Does it lessen your desire for the whiskey?

    Given the safety of New Zealand roads (and streets) and the prevalence of illicit drug suppliers (in your area), I'm not convinced moving the sale from dairies will make the environment significantly safer for anyone. This argument that decreasing visibility or decreasing availability works, is tenuous.

    As you may know from the news reports, there has been a spate of emergency admissions related to Kronic. Compared to alcohol, Kronic’s toxicity is very, very low:

    Despite the cost to the tax payer, this is indicative of a positive change in that seeking medical supervision shows a greater degree of self-responsibility and a greater perception of societal tolerance than in the past when the solution invariably involved some variation of locking yourself in your bedroom and hardening up.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to chris,

    Advocating restriction the retail opportunities doesn't seem to be any kind of solution

    The evidence is apparently against you on that one. Same with pricing. Hence the local booze industry successfully lobbying our govt against any such changes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Russell Brown,

    You’re better off with proper drugs, frankly.

    Liking this too.:)
    Coat getting now.....
    in a minute
    When a teenager tells me that they are smokin' or taking eccies, I tend to ask them, what they think of it. My dreadlocks tend to have teens relax around me and quite comfortable to chat about drugs. I ask them if they like it, how they know when they have had enough or do they know, or do they feel pressured from friends to indulge. Alcohol is their biggest issue for pressure and the drugs are for special occasions. Vodka seems popular for them thinking it is odourless. Alcohol is consumed more frequently because it is legal. Some prefer a smoke but because it's illegal,tend to drink more.I find it interesting that they use a bong over papers. When I asked why, they think it's not as bad as straight out smoking. Better for their lungs. Parents I know from the wealthier suburbs are happy to supply alcohol because they falsely think it deters them from anything else that is illegal, and they can join in and make themselves happy and popular amongst the kids. Also parents with a fully stocked bar tend to miss the odd bottle disappearing during the weekend as they are socialising with their friends and the kids are gone to a party (with the bottles) which probably ends up at another house with a fully stocked bar. The kids are surrounded by this one legal drug. But I think they are well aware of the situations they put themselves in.They are watching it everywhere.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • PJ,

    Quite heartening to see the Your View comments on this story are overwhelmingly in favour of legalisation and regulation of cannabis.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10732754

    Auckland • Since Jun 2011 • 7 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew, in reply to chris,

    Despite the cost to the tax payer, this is indicative of a positive change in that seeking medical supervision shows a greater degree of self-responsibility and a greater perception of societal tolerance than in the past when the solution invariably involved some variation of locking yourself in your bedroom and hardening up.

    I'd take a guess that this is also a result of the legal status of the substance - They are probably a lot more likely to seek assistance from ill effects of a legal substance than they are from an illegal one, or at least they wait til things are a lot worse on the illegal ones.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

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