Hard News: Undie Wankers
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p.s. I like the 50-comments-a-page deal.
Yes. But if it hits our page impressions too badly, Capitalism might bite back ;-)
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The next year, anyone who joins the Undie 500 knows what they're signing up for.
What, challenge a bunch of drunk & clever aggro young men to a biff? There's no way that could go wrong...
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Are you sure that's not misspelled ?
written wronger, so to speak.
P.who still recalls from Educating Rita 'Assonance is when they get the rhyme wrong', apropos of nothing much
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at that moment I might not have admitted to being from Christchurch if asked
I wouldn't admit that at any time if I were you... ;-)
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I'm not saying that I personally was a badly-behaved drunk, or that I think that fear of hypocrisy is a sound argument for holding off judgement, just offering that as an explanation for the tolerance some people seem to feel.
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Something has changed in recent years that is for sure. The thing about students having parties that got rowdy and involved impromptu bonfires in the middle of the street is not new, 'twas ever thus*.
Back in my time ('84 on) I had never heard of the 'Undie 500', it may well have happened but it cannot have been a major event. I wonder if it was some sort of homage journey after they dismembered the excellent School of Mines at Otago and shipped it up to the Engineering Faculty at Canty where it proceeded to whither on the vine.
So either the cops and fire service have become less tolerant over the years or the Undie 500 has become an opportunity for organised mass partying rather than just one or two flats, in which case the event is a problem though I can't see how you can ban it in a free country. They feel they can do it in North Dunedin because it is Scarfyville with few true locals (the place is absolutely dead in the summer). This is unlike other places in the country where students have ordinary people as neighbours.
*Neighbours were having a rowdy party once which we tolerated until they started hurling beer bottles, one of which hit the wall of our flat right beside the bathroom window where we were bathing the eldest. We decided to call the cops at that point and when they arrived they calmed the situation down and the next day we got an apology.
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The class system is alive and well.
This just riot is like the terror of the Public Schools/Colleges had on their local townsin Tom Browns School Days.
These kids have been brought up with a real sense of their entitlement along with the tacit approval of the Canty Uni Cop Bill Timms and his mantra "Remeber what it's like to be young?" A real life Skullion from Porterhouse and even in Blue.
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@Phillip Matthews
The ones in the flats will, by and large, not be first years. They will be in one of the many Halls of Residence that dot Dunedin, that is a whole other culture, or was. So the ones who light bonfires in Castle St are 2nd years and older. Behave like that while in Halls and you are likely to find yourself homeless or otherwise sanctioned. That all goes when you go flatting.
I liked Graeme Downe's point in his blog, it sounds from it like the ghettoisation of North Dunedin is even worse than when he and I were there as Students (I saw the early Verlaines at the Oriental in '84). The flat we had at the top end of Cumberland St. is now gone and a block of flats built there instead for eg. The students are not responsible for this the good buy to rent burghers of Dunedin and the council planners are. Here in the UK they are thinking about passing legislation to limit the number of 'houses of multiple occupancy' in any given area after hints (only vague hints in comparison) of this happening in Nottingham and Edinburgh. Seems its too late in North Dunedin so since it is containable and the aforementioned good burghers need not be inconvenienced, why not simply contain it?
Yes, if it happened in South Auckland it would be treated differently, but that is because there are lots of other people around so it has to be treated differently, but that is not any different from a lot of the context dependant policing that goes on. For eg the world rugby 7's in Wellington only the revellers there do not expect aggro from the police so there isn't any. If the police let it be known that the Undie could go on in this place but overspill would be dealt with they would soon burn the party out.
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As someone who went to Intermediate and then secondary school in Dunedin, it always boggled the mind how small the students from outside the place (and they are of course the large majority) had such a small view of the place. Many of them scarcely go out anywhere past the Octagon in the three or four years they study here. I remember writing an article on South Dunedin as a features writer partly because Dave Large (the editor) and myself realised many students would have never got that far out of the place. And the way the flats have been arranged plays a huge part in it.
Graeme Downes is absolutely right in terms of the sheer density of the flat population, by any other standard it's practically unliveable...and yet this "roughing it" aspect seems to one of the ways to subconsciously sell aspiring students the idea of the "Dunedin experience". But something's got to give, especially if landlords continue to bleed their tenants dry.
And then you've got the fact that Dunedin probably has more pubs and off-licenses and drinking establishments per capita than anywhere else- partly that's down to the fact it's a student town, but the pubs, especially the big players like The Cook have become increasingly cynical in the way they've targeted students.
This, by the way, is a side issue and has nothing to do with the sheer fuckwittery which was on display (on TV) for all to see in the weekend. I don't know how this Undie 500 went down, but it seems to have followed a pattern from the last few years. I remember the fallout from the 2007 Undie 500- Critic practically filled its issue within the space of the day, emails, photos, and texts were flooding in, with everyone blaming each other and no one accepting any responsibility.
As far as I can tell, this is who deserves "blame" and should take some responsibility, in relative order.Maybe it's different this time around, but again, a pattern seems to be forming.
1. The students involved in the antics. Front up, you're responsible for this and frankly it pisses me off as someone who would see them come and go every year. It's not big, it's not clever, and it's bloody terrifying for the 95% of students who actually want to get on with their lives. Ultimately, the buck stops with them. I would quite happy if a few of the rioters actually got doled out PD or something similar.
Incidentally, this goes double for the non-students who drive down to Dunedin or join in on the "fun". Seriously, stop it.
2. The council. Posturing about punishment and then sticking their heads in their sand pretending nothing's going to go awry is asking for trouble. Whatever happens, it's now got to the stage where everyone realises that there will be something resembling an Undie 500. So accomodate it, set up a proper, secluded stop-off point, arrange some entertainment (though please anything but the Feelers) and at least do something close to damage control. Maybe by trying to police it before it gets to the end.
3. The police. Although in their case, they're on a hiding to nothing, and you wonder whether they realised it was going to get ugly from the outset. Maybe they needed to show some restraint this time, I don't know, I wasn't there. They're in a bind, and really they should be the last resort. But they need to figure out a way to control the overspill, much like they do in the Hyde St Keg Race and the like.
4. The fact everyone seems to have got it into their heads to hype up the event as a riot before it happens- I remember several years, close to a decade in fact, of Undie 500s without incident. Now it seems that it's going to be this way every time.
5. The VCs of Dunedin and Canterbury respectively- stop pointing the finger at oneanother and actually work together to do something about this.
I'm pretty angry at this, and I'm angrier at the fact that it seems to happen like clockwork every year now and everyone pretends they're going to do something about it and they don't. And it's compounded by the fact that now you get fuckwits driving down from Timaru and the like to "join in".
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Re: RB's comments about ACTards- I wonder whether a high proportion of those who engaged in the antics were exactly those sorts of people. I would put good money on it.
I would also like to reiterate that I have no sympathy for anyone involved in the "riots". Pointless, nihilistic stuff. But there are obviously some surrounding issues that really need to be addressed.
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p.s. I like the 50-comments-a-page deal.
Yes. But if it hits our page impressions too badly, Capitalism might bite back ;-)
You can always compromise Russell and do what the ECB is doing next year in county cricket.
50 over cricket is being abolished and they are going with 40 over innings instead. Expect that to spread around the world like wildfire in the next 2-3 years.
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50 over cricket is being abolished and they are going with 40 over innings instead. Expect that to spread around the world like wildfire in the next 2-3 years.
Just to take this discussion on a brief detour, isn't reducing the number of overs not really addressing the issue- namely, the fact that the game itself has become stale and overplayed? I mean, I can't really consider 20/20 the real thing, so maybe this will be a nice compromise, but I think there could be other ways to sex things up- shorter series, for one.
As long as they don't reintroduce the Supersubs.
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4. The fact everyone seems to have got it into their heads to hype up the event as a riot before it happens- I remember several years, close to a decade in fact, of Undie 500s without incident. Now it seems that it's going to be this way every time.
It certainly passed without incident (that I remember) in my first two years at uni - that was why the 2007 riots were such a big deal; no-one expected it to end like that. Stupid way to end an otherwise entertaining tradition.
- I wonder whether a high proportion of those who engaged in the antics were exactly those sorts of people. I would put good money on it.
I know for a fact some students of that description were arrested and charged in the 2007 goings-on. For exactly the kind of behaviour Russell described, and likely the reason.
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It certainly passed without incident (that I remember) in my first two years at uni - that was why the 2007 riots were such a big deal; no-one expected it to end like that. Stupid way to end an otherwise entertaining tradition.
Absolutely, but it had been primed by the fallout of 2006*- which was much down to, by all accounts from my Critic mates on the scene, some pretty stupid behaviour by a small group of students and some pretty piss-poor, reactive and confrontational damage control from the police. So in the minds of some idiots the stakes were raised for the following year.
*Incidentally also occured the weekend of my graduation, so I was celebrating quietly with my friends back at my house and then at a mate's flat in Smith St while parts of Castle St burned. I didn't find out about it until the next day. -
I'm mostly in the "if you throw a bottle at the cops you ought to end up in court" camp ... burning your own couch shouldn't be that big a deal provided you have the appropriate permits and stuff from the fire dept - and if not spraying the area with a fire hose should probably be in order
The whole couch burning thing will right itself eventually - there's only a fixed number of couches in circulation in the 2nd hand stores of Dunedin ... I bet the number hasn't been increasing .... eventually it will get close enough to 0 that no one will want to give them up
On the other hand I did happen to get a ride to the airport very early Sunday morning from a cab driver who had spent all night driving people home from the hospital - sounds like the cops went a bit overboard with the pepper spray (to the point that they apparently actually ran out)
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I'm mostly in the "if you throw a bottle at the cops you ought to end up in court" camp ... burning your own couch shouldn't be that big a deal provided you have the appropriate permits and stuff from the fire dept - and if not spraying the area with a fire hose should probably be in order
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
The whole couch burning thing will right itself eventually - there's only a fixed number of couches in circulation in the 2nd had stores of Dunedin ... I bet the number hasn't been increasing .... eventually it will get close enough to 0 that no one will want to give them up
I remember going to an ODI against Australia at Carisbrook back in 2000 where at least three couhces were burnt within the space of 30 minutes. It really was quite ridiculous.
Then again, it provided some distraction from the fact that Gilchrist was hammering our bowlers all over the park. He was a monster that day...
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Re students, Undie 500 etc - am firmly in the "punish the little bastards" camp. What I find irritating, and not just in this situation, is the people who stand on the sidelines being shits and then being all " oh, can you believe that bad pig person just sprayed/hit/pushed me?" when a TV camera turns up. Can't be doing with the victim playing game, especially since the person being interviewed about the harm done to them always has a very grinny face. Re Clean Green NZ - I, for one, am fully for facing our grubby behaviour, and not trying to hide it. Every morning, I walk around the perimeter of our kindergarten picking up rubbish. This has led me to two conclusions._WARNING - NONPC RANT ENSUES_ 1) Dairies who sell pies and cookies and icecreams to young kids in bulk quantities need to either have rubbish bins outside their shop, or employ someone to go around picking up the ensuing rubbish, or they should be prosecuted for selling such rubbish anyway. 2) Kiwis need to take compulsory civic etiquette classes. Lesson #1 - Pick up your own bloody rubbish, you dirty bastards.
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of course that should apply to McDonalds et al as well
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Burning couches?? Is that all they've got? The same stunt ad infinitum .... maybe it's a lack of established rituals, someone above mentioned rites of passage - well, fair enough, start their own but surely they can come up with something a bit more imaginative? More actual fun.
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Quite. For me, density will usually have more positives than negatives, and I'm all in favour of the extra vitality and variety that a whole lot of people can bring to a neighbourhood. But anyone who's read Jane Jacobs will know that density also requires mixed use, and IIRC North Dunedin didn't have much back in the day other than flats and a 24-hour dairy. Has that changed? Or has the density increased without introducing other amenities and activities?
It's pretty much the latter- unless you count university campus as one giant amenity. You only need to go down North East Valley to see exactly what sort of squalor students live in, and seemingly of their own accord. It's really quite eerie walking down that area once all the students leave...only for them to return three months later as if they had never departed. Different faces, same crowd.
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I did my undergraduate in Dunedin late 90s to early 00s and this (and the last time this happened in 07?) seems very different from how I remember things. In my five years I think I saw two fights and, one of which wasn’t a student fight and the other was a mini brawl outside a student pub (The Bowler). It was a very mellow and relaxed time for me and made visiting places like either night-time central Auckland or the strip in Christchurch seem all the worse.
That being said, a lot of what goes on now – the couch burnings, the petty vandalism, the glass in the street, the seven day a week drunkenness was standard stuff then as well. Places like Castle Street were the epicentres and the people who flatted there were usually second or third year students who really wanted to be in the centre of the action. I also was there during the previous drinking age of 20 and then the current 18 – and while that change did make the pub atmosphere a little different, we still had the same flat/street drinking culture.
I think perhaps we are just seeing either a local cultural aberration. With some effort I am sure they can get back to the more relaxed/less violent. Maybe that will need to be harsh application of the law or university statute
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In light of the other news story of the week, maybe they could organise an Undie 500 across Cook Strait.
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I'd be quite happy to have those who were the worst offenders be kicked out of Uni, with their fees being donated in scholarship to some more deserving young adult from - say - South Auckland.
Secondly, like or not, having a fuckwit with a degree and a good job is better than having a fuckwit without one and unable to get a break because of a conviction.
Indeed. So give the opportunity for a degree and self-betterment to someone who will make good use of it because they don't take it so much for granted. The white kid will still find a goodish job I'm sure, and s/he can have another crack at University after a couple of years, with more stringent criteria for a student loan.
and most of them probably won't be a bother to police again.
Well, perhaps not as thugs, but who's to say their pampered arrogance and flagrant disregard for others won't make white-collar criminals of them? Alan Bond, anyone? Bernard Madoff?
Do we really need to make criminals of these people?
As someone already said, they made criminals of themselves.
Am I being overly harsh? Perhaps. But they piss me off that bloody much. Give them a lesson they won't quickly forget, and perhaps the otherwise fun Undie 500 (which I think is an awesome idea, btw) can get back to just been jolly good times with the areshole element thinking twice before turning it into a nasty old pot of ugly. 'Cos it's not the booze; it's the people.
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In light of the other news story of the week, maybe they could organise an Undie 500 across Cook Strait.
Now that would rock! :-D
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In the 60s they burnt US flags; in the 70s they burnt bras; and in the 90s, in Dunedin, they started burning couches.
A rebellion against their home-decorating obsessed parents, perhaps. Too much reality tv about real estate. And too fecking cold.
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