Hard News: The silence of the public square
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Pete George, in reply to
It's a new thing in campaign rallies though isn't it?
I suspect if a Colin Craig campaign meeting broke into a similar chant directed at Laila Harre she would be very offended again.
Dotcom (wasn't he supposed to be taking a back seat to the party?), Harre and Harawira can campaign how they like, but it makes their preciousness about taking offence (Harawira versus Davis, Harre versus Key) look a bit lame.
An in my opinion this is all a bad change in electioneering. No wonder Labour are gradually distancing themselves trying to maintain their Vote Positive slogan, no wonder Greens and NZ First already ready the warning signs.
If IMP end up holding the balance of power with Labour and Greens in government I think there's good cause to have concerns about what that may lead to.
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If National end up holding power without any effective checks or balances, there is even better reason -- based on past performance and signalled policies, rather than on fear and uncertainty -- to have concerns about what that may lead to.
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Aaand … some footage from an hour before Dotcom got on stage. Guess what the crowd’s chanting.
People can decide for themselves what they think about it, but there really has been some bullshit spouted about this today. Especially the Nazi comparisons.
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Pete George, in reply to
But the Internet Party have chosen to promote video of it. Laila seems to have no control over what they put out, and every time it happens it makes her job harder.
Especially the Nazi comparisons.
I'll tell my German friend who was disgusted by the immediate impression they got to pull their head in then. They carry a heavy burden still but too bad, eh. This is how Kivis do their politics now.
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This is actually absurd. Saying rude words is maybe rude, but it's not immoral.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
When Pierre Trudeau was Canadian PM during the 1970s, he once told truckies who had downed tools to ‘mangez de la merde!’ And King Juan Carlos of Spain retorted ‘¿Pour que no te callas?’ to Hugo Chavez.
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I thought we overthrew fascism in 2008? That's what the Farrar/Boscawen marchers were saying on their placards, anyway. Complete with Helen/Hitler comparisons and such.
But they were saying "fight fascism", not "fight fucking fascism", so that was OK.
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
everything to do with rhythm and scan
I believe the correct chant is:
Fuck John Key.
Rather you than me! -
Carol Stewart, in reply to
And things just continue to get weirder. Now Jamie Whyte is recommending that NZ emulate Fiji in its approach to race relations!
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andin, in reply to
You mean John Voldemort Key?
Yeah, because someone who (whether you like it or not) is still Prime Minister after not one but two free, fair and credible general elections is exactly like a fictional mass murderer.
No! If I may speak for you Judi. She was doing a play on the danyl's words, these one's "not mentioning the PM’s name." and making an allusion to the whispered "He who cant be named" about a fictional evil wizard, in the recently popular kids novels and films.
Nothing sinister in it -
Mikaere Curtis, in reply to
If IMP end up holding the balance of power with Labour and Greens in government I think there’s good cause to have concerns about what that may lead to.
Things like our spooks actually obeying the rule of law ? Key being held accountable for any lies he may have stated during the whole KDC fubar ? Or perhaps we will see National MPs Godwinning ?
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
I believe the correct chant is:Fuck John Key.Rather you than me!
That'll do
If Key thinks Harre is a prostitute, he can get fucked as far as I'm concerned. He has set the bar on the campaign trail. The "sugar daddy" comment was as low as you can go so Fuck John key ,have to be you,not me!
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Or perhaps we will see National MPs Godwinning ?
So far, they've invoked Reductio ad Stalinum, and I suspect not just with last year's NZ Power announcement by the Opposition.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
If Key thinks Harre is a prostitute, he can get fucked as far as I’m concerned. He has set the bar on the campaign trail. The “sugar daddy” comment was as low as you can go so Fuck John key ,have to be you,not me!
Key’s “sugar daddy” shade was weird (and offensive), because last time I looked no election campaign is self-financing. If you want to call me a National sugar daddy, Sofie, go to – I’ve been called a lot worse, and with less cause.
That said, “but they did it first!” is an excuse I don’t tolerate from children. Lilla Harre is not a child. Would anyone be praising a video of a room full of Young Nats chanting “FUCK LILLA HARRE!” as (as I quote) “a true representation of youth expression”? (Sidebar: And isn’t it just a little insulting to “youth”, plenty of who are passionate and engaged in politics without cussing like Malcolm Tucker on steroids.) I’d be embarrassed and angry, and I’d certainly expect anyone in National who posted such a thing to pull it after issuing a grovelling apology.
NOBODY is beyond criticism, or even the occasional naughty word, but EVERYBODY gets to be responsible for their choices and actions. That simple.
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Laila Harre:
“When you get a room of a thousand young people together and you give them a political message, then they will respond that young people respond to politics.
“The response that those young people is typical of youth expression, and we’re not about censoring youth expression.”
Pissed people chanting at the end of a gig is likely to have little to do with politics, except for those trying to demonstrate popular support for a political party.
But regardless of what thoughts were in the minds of the chanting crowd they have a right to chant what they like.
But apparently anyone who perceived Nazi connotations in Dotcom's performance (and many apparently did) should shut the fuck up about it.
Russell Brown @publicaddress
More dimwitted Nazi analogies from a “political marketing specialist” even more deluded than Claire Robinson:@PeteDGeorge @ManaParty @nzlabour Your “Nazi connotations” are pop-cultural ignorance + lazy ethnic bigotry.
Godwin ist verboten, even though expressing immediate impressions is not very Godwinning.
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You can perceive whatever you like, Pete. You just don't get to insist you're correct or have the last word, any more than anyone else.
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Pete George, in reply to
I wasn't insisting on anything like that then Stephen. Ironically you are the one who seems insistent I "don't get to".
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
If you want to call me a National sugar daddy, Sofie, go to
I wouldn't Craig , that would be lowering myself to a John Key standard. Unfortunately also "they did it first" was exactly what the National Government have used for ohh, every excuse to explain their sick behaviour for around 6 years now but I guess I shouldn't lower myself to that standard either.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Oh Steven, I feel a bit queasy now ;)
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FWIW:
I remember chanting. - "Fuck Thatcher, fuck the tax, we want our country back !"
I was not drunk (though it may have appeared otherwise), it was broad daylight and I was with a large group of youths. I may regret the conjunction of particular verbs and genders now, but I do not regret the sentiment. As someone who had already supported picketing miners before then, I may well have taken offense at any suggestion that I was associated with fascism by virtue of abusing a sitting prime minister. Such a suggestion may have been seen as inciteful at the time. I would also have been quite upset to have my actions interpreted as those of a misogynist would be rapist.
My long winded point, is to suggest that folk take care when labeling the the actions of others. Particularly young people who can be bothered to say anything at all. Perhaps the best answer is not to guess, bringing to bear whatever expectations and prejudices you possess but to ask; you may be surprised by the answer.
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@ChrisHipkins:
Finally had a chance to see the Dotcom video everyone's talking about. It's alarming. No place for that kind of thuggery in NZ politics
Getting a bunch of people drunk and getting them to chant abuse isn't political leadership. It's thuggery and megalomania intertwined.
I want more young NZers to vote to be heard, not because they're being wound up & manipulated by the worst kind of cynicism and thuggery.
I think that will reflect a much more common view than Dotcom and Harre are trying to portray.
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Pete George, in reply to
If they want to be taken seriously, yes.
That could be applied to Dotcom and the Internet party, probably more appropriately.
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Moz, in reply to
That true, I grapple with that as I decide who gets my vote.
I'm more concerned with people who actually associate with criminals and are comfortable with fraud being commited against the electoral system. I leave the Godwin to you.
Not that I'm suggesting that That Nice Mr Key{tm} would actually commit fraud to keep office, but the whole National Party edifice does seem too comfortable with corruption for my liking. From "airport security rules are only for the proletariat" to "oh, you mean this investment" they seem to like skating as close to the public acceptance line as they can get away with, legality be damned. It might be as innocent as shifting the Overton Window towards public officials enriching themselves at our expense, or as offensive as, well, that.
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I was at the Party Party in Wellington where something similar happened. I was a little disappointed by speech that Dotcom made but mostly because there was no substance to it. Basically it was just as shown in the video: let's have a revolution, let's get rid of John Key, I want to give everyone here a hug and have a good night. Only about 30 seconds all up. And there was the chanting. No idea where it started.
There's a lot of dislike for John Key around the country, especially amongst the youth as far as I can tell. The cronyism and the lies leave a bad taste. Despite that, I wasn't particularly impressed by the chanting but I'm sure it's not the first time it has happened. It would probably happen if Key turned up at any concert outside of a Young Nats convention.
I'm finding the comparison to the Nazis worrying too. I'm guessing it's simple racism: if Dotcom wasn't German, the comparison wouldn't have been made.
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I distinctly remember chanting "Fuck Lockwood Smith!" while marching against the Todd Report in 1994. While I feel a little bad about it now - Dr Smith is by most accounts quite a nice man - I think anyone claiming that it's a startling new development is being rather disingenuous.
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