Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The file-sharing bill

340 Responses

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  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Russell Brown,

    That’s just rude.

    Yeah he could at least share them with you

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Ms Lee said last night the compilation was made of songs that were legally downloaded and paid for.

    And so are all those songs on those illegal file sharing sites, they were legally paid for somewhere too.

    I was thinking today about this idea that all file sharing was by default illegal - someone needs to ask the question "Does the honorable member understand that the downloading of files containing the text of NZ laws from legislation.govt.nz is file sharing but is not illegal?"

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Greg Dawson,

    Given how long it will take to actually send letters out, is there a provision that the "three months" has to be elapsed between receipt of the letters?

    I mean, if they *start* sending a letter and take ages to print and mail it, so you end up getting three letters in one go...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 294 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Kracklite,

    The implication might be that if you don’t lodge a complaint yourself, you don’t care, but I do not believe that of you.

    No, I certainly wasn't trying to imply that. More that if you want to be certain that justice is done, don't rely on others doing something that, as you have seen, is not actually terribly difficult. Especially since now, unlike then, there's a properly independent body that has unlimited power to investigate past behaviours.
    Good on you for sending the complaint, too. The IPCA is not omnipotent, so being made aware of historic transgressions that may not have been dealt with adequately is important.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Sean Murgatroyd,

    I also think it's likely to be ineffective.

    Whole conversation right there.

    _connection drops_

    _picks up netbook and walks to nearest Starbucks_

    Right there.

    New Zealand • Since Apr 2011 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to Ben Austin,

    The use of urgency is pretty disgraceful. Has any party or person proposed any sort of policy that would tighten rules on this matter?

    Apparently so. It’s being pushed by Grant Robertson and David Farrar, curiously enough.

    Melissa Lee explains herself:

    I just had one of those “…you don’t know anything about anything!" moments.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    Think of it instead as a piece of theatre, much like the TSA "war on travelers" in the US. They want to be seen to be doing something. Some of them may even believe their own propaganda that 70% of people will stop downloading if they get a warning notice. Of course, in order to reach that level, they're going to have to send out an awful lot of notices. Expect anguished media execs in 6 months time complaining about the costs of getting ISPs to obey the law and that's why they need the termination button.

    They have another propaganda line that the ISPs are making huge profits from the downloaders and so have no interest in shutting the practice down. They have obviously never looked at ISP profit margins but it was their rationale for wanting ISPs to pay all the costs of policing.

    Also, expect them to take a number of cases through the Tribunal and the District Court, calling for maximum penalties - they have to, to justify having pushed this legislation through 2 separate governments. Some of them may even believe in it.

    And, if they can persuade Power to flip the switch, expect them to get someone terminated as soon as possible pour encourager les autres .

    Damn good summary. Bravo, Mark.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I think so. Apart from anything else, that is plenty of legitimately-shared content on P2P networks, Blizzard and other game companies use the same protocols to legitimately serve their updates, etc. OTOH, the ignorant blatherings of Lee,Shanks and Young are hardly cause for confidence.

    Even if they did push that through, it wouldn't stop file-sharing - it'd just stop really easy file-sharing. At seventh and last, any digital media can and will be (eventually) copied by someone, and then it can and will be distributed. Torrenting is just the most efficient way to share stuff, currently.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to glennd,

    wonder if the end goal of certain groups is just to get P2P and similar activity banned altogether, and make it illegal for ISPs to allow such traffic.

    That might be an unconscious goal, sort of an immune system response from a beast that doesn't want to change to match its environment. Worth keeping an eye on net neutrality too, for instance. This is all lobbying fodder as Mark has so astutely observed.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Grant Stone, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Skype's built on P2P as well. How about utilities like Dropbox?

    Auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Clare Curran has been highly engaged with all this.

    Yet I'd have to say her speeches during the session were rambling and overly engaged in the pettiness of the House. Jacinda Ardern and David Parker were far better and clearly understood what they were talking about.

    I understand Labour may have made compromise deals over the substantive Bill, but does that including voting against Gareth Hughes's sensible amendment to remove one of the worst features, which Curran now tells us we should trust the current government not to enact?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kracklite,

    as Oscar Wilde observed, “socialism will never work – it takes up too many evenings”

    Brilliant - had never heard that one.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    For the record I sometimes use torrents as part of business to get around NZ's crappy internet connectivity - to send a gig or two of (my!) data offshore to more than one destination - say a client in the US and their Chinese manufacturing facility - it's faster to push a torrent and have the other destinations copy between themselves than to make 2 or 3 uploads out of NZ

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    Thanks Heather. Good to see Farrar injecting some form of bipartisanship

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1027 posts Report Reply

  • Sean Murgatroyd,

    Skype's built on P2P as well. How about utilities like Dropbox?

    Even conversations around P2P are becoming irrelevant.

    Streaming content isn't P2P, and is advanced as a method of content control.

    It's one the primary method of illegal sharing of content we have.

    Careful disclaimers on Youtube's part shift liability to the end user, but at the end of the day I can search for any video on google, use a stream capture plugin and create a .flv on my machine of that video, should I want to do that.

    I've done so not through a shadowy underground network, but by simply clicking on a page that has not yet been subject to a takedown notice and using a legal tool for an illegal purpose.

    Not advocating illegal activity, just explaining that chasing the models doesn't prevent that activity any more than attempts to prevent connection.

    New Zealand • Since Apr 2011 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Ben Austin,

    Good to see Farrar injecting some form of bipartisanship

    I consider it very, very telling that Farrar is objecting publicly to National's abuse of urgency.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Grant McDougall, in reply to Russell Brown,

    However, unless there’s a surveillance camera in every home, it’ll be impossible to tell who actually clicks and d/loads stuff. Even if you live alone you could probably just say it was a friend mucking around on the computer while they were visiting.

    I’d be a bit pissed off if my friend was running down my data cap by launching a bunch of torrents and letting them seed while he visited, so that I got a warning letter. And then doing it again. And then a third time inside three months without me twigging what was going on despite the warnings. That’s just rude.

    I agree, but my point was to do with the impossibility of the authorities identifying the actual individual culprit.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2006 • 760 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Grant McDougall,

    I agree, but my point was to do with the impossibility of the authorities identifying the actual individual culprit.

    And so they can't lay criminal charges, but only fine the account holder/impound the account. Much like they do with vehicular offences. You do get fined if somebody else parks your car where it's proihibited. But if somebody borrows or steals your car and hurts somebody with it, the culprit is the driver.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Yes, if you were torrenting kiddy-porn, then the authorities would really want to know who exactly was responsible. But that's not going to be of interest to copyright enforcers - they're not interested in real crimes.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    Even if they did push that through, it wouldn’t stop file-sharing

    Can't stop the signal.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew E, in reply to nzlemming,

    Even if they did push that through, it wouldn’t stop file-sharing

    Can't stop the signal.

    #serenity

    Jonathan Young = Jayne Cobb on the intelligence scale?

    174.77 x 41.28 • Since Sep 2008 • 200 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sean Murgatroyd,

    Careful disclaimers on Youtube’s part shift liability to the end user, but at the end of the day I can search for any video on google, use a stream capture plugin and create a .flv on my machine of that video, should I want to do that.

    I’ve done so not through a shadowy underground network, but by simply clicking on a page that has not yet been subject to a takedown notice and using a legal tool for an illegal purpose.

    We all watch infringing material on YouTube, even the copyright crusaders.

    And yes, now you mention it, I have an excellent Safari extension that allows me to capture material for use under the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act 1994.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Andrew E,

    Jonathan Young = Jayne Cobb on the intelligence scale?

    Nah, I think Young’s the narc they dumped in the first episode.

    Jayne's way smarter than that.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew E, in reply to nzlemming,

    Nah, I think Young’s the narc they dumped in the first episode.
    Jayne's way smarter than that.

    Yes, come to think of it, you're right.

    This distraction into Firefly/Serenity matters is somewhat appropriate given the means by which I first encountered the programme.

    Moving back on topic...

    174.77 x 41.28 • Since Sep 2008 • 200 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to nzlemming,

    Jayne’s way smarter than that.

    At the very least, he has much better taste in colleagues.

    Can’t stop the signal.

    Or take the Sky (content)? ;)

    This distraction into Firefly/Serenity matters is somewhat appropriate given the means by which I first encountered the programme.

    For me, that's actually an excellent example of how downloading works in conent-holders' favour - I never would have shelled out the very large amount of money for the Region-1-only Firefly DVDs if I hadn't watched it through rather less legal means. Ditto for Serenity, obviously.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

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