Hard News: The Demon E-Word
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Anna Nother thing...
Minto argues that
Almost a third of our children grow up in poverty and a large proportion will take up low-paid, part-time jobs for much of their working lives. They need to question and think critically about the economic alternatives to the failure of New Zealand's economy to work well for people aside from small numbers of wealthy entrepreneurs.
So if so many kids are ending up in McJobs, wouldn't encouraging entrepreneurial skills be a GOOD thing?
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I felt Minto was talking more about 'business' calling the shots on how education seemed to be being shaped to produce the graduates it needs. That universities, once seats of learning designed to produce well-rounded, broadly educated individuals, were now churning out truck loads of lawyers and business graduates or any degrees that will guarantee a gilt-edged meal ticket.
A few years ago the nauseating Holmes was interviewing Peter Webb, the art 'entrepreneur'. Holmes asked him: "What advice would you give budding artists today". Webb replied: "Paint for the market". I almost vomited. Van Gogh turned in his grave.
I recall Peter Ustinov once saying, apropos of travelling, that if you wanted to understand a society quickly, watch it's television for a week. I shudder to think TVNZ reflects NZ society? -
Dave Waugh said...
We worked on the curriculum project at my work and having read all it's various incarnations as it was developed I must say I have been well impressed by it's vision and scope.
it's = it is
its = genitive form (possessive) of it
Will the new curriculum teach our kids these basics?
;-)
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you know I sort of get what John's getting at but as some of the other have said 'entrepreneur' means different things to different people - it's a bit of a rorschach test in its own right.
I think what John wants is for our kids to grow up with their morals such that they wont exploit their fellow kiwis - a good thing I think - mind you one person's 'exploitation' is someone else's profit, and in some sense it's a word that works sort of the opposite of 'entrepreneur' and this issue of what's 'right' or 'wrong' economically is at the centre of lots of political arguments - bright people can differ and draw the line at different places - a lot of what political argument comes down to is 'where will we draw the line this week/month/year/decade' - that stuff moves around with our national political concensus.
My politics are decidedly to the left, but I spent 2 decades living in Silicon Valley - I know we need to be able to left bright kiwis shine, tall poppies need watering not cutting down, but at the same time we need to make a good society to live in, one where everyone has a stake and can have a good life - I don't want our kids growing up to exploit their classmates (in NZ or China) but I don't want them unable to create good jobs for them either
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Paul Williams, the system fails us because it does not support individual excellence either in pupils or teachers. Pupils should be able to work at their own pace and progress through the system faster or slower depending on their skills. Good teachers should be paid more and we should have the flexibility to pay science and tech teachers more in order to attract the best.
How else has it failed us? let me count the ways - standards have been slipping despite more people "graduating", we have failed to intill loyalty so that our bets and brightest come back after their OE, we have failed to do anything but talk about the "knowledge economy" needed to keep our bright kids here, ...
The "call centre" post was excellent - yes the education system has succeeded well in producing a dichotomous compliant educated population and a population who think they have been disenfranchinsed because minto says so to them. Yay success!
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I'm very much hoping to get my son to go to Unlimited year after next. He wants to go to Riccarton like all his friends, but I look at what Unlimited offers in comparison with a traditional high school and I get all excited.
It's always horses for courses but from our experience which is six years now between both schools I would recommend it without reservation. One of the many plusses is that teacher's love it too so they bust a gut to get jobs there, so the quality is very high. Funnily enough, this is in an environment where the teacher as orchestra conductor is turned on it's head to teacher as another player in the band.
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Kevin, I'm sorry but your post is seriously lacking in evidence. Your claims that the system is failing kids is not borne out by the facts - if you don't think PIRLS or PISA are meaningful indicators I'd welcome your comment on the alternatives? If you think that the improvement in retention and achievement rates in senior secondary aren't important, what is? Please don't tell me you'd rather we fell in with the other colonies and went for the Cambridge Bac?
Like you, I work in/around education but I don't see the systemic failure you do. How are standards failing, where are standards failing? You comment about call centres is disingenuous; the nature of work and employment has and continues to change - I don't particularly like the fact that lots of school leavers are sifted through call centres before they're able to get decent work but that's no the fault of the education system surely?
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And why do you get excited about Unlimited?
I am assuming it's not the content or the curriculum that excites - same old same old, but the delivery and choices it offers
I am afraid that is what seems to be missing from this review - though I have only had a quick scan of it.
Where are the exciting new and inclusive methods of delivery that will reflect emerging communication systems and technology ? -
You want the utopian anarchist analysis or the realistic public policy suggestion? How about I do both:
< Utopian Anarchist >
Education under capitalism is intrinsically about weeding kids into sheep and goats in order to populate the various strata of society.
In an anarchist society, this would be replaced by system that alows all kids to realise their potential as individuals and contributors for society. That society would not be mediated by money (certainly not by accumulated wealth).Thus, "Enterpreneurialism", which is about using ones talents to accumulate wealth, would have no place in an anarchist education system. (Nor indeed, would a national curriculum).
</Utopian Anarchist>
<Realistic Policy>
Our education system is pretty succesful in enabling smart, motivated kids to achieve their goals. We have an adequate supply of high-end graduates and a reasonable *average* level of literacy.
Where it falls down is in failing a substantial proportion of the population. This includes those who never learn to read and those who spend years learning skills that have few corresponding jobs (mostly in the art/media area, I'm afraid). These people often wind up in the underclass.
The education system needs to concentrate on those who are failing, not (as it seems to at present) on those who go from a top decile school to a law degree at Auckland Uni. It needs to move away from accepting that those with poor parental involvement will intrinsically fail. It needs to stop juding schools on their ability to super-serve a tiny minority of elite students.
We need to look at a curriculum that will enthuse the section of the population that presently fails. We need to switch funding to lower decile schools and remove hidden selection, school fees and subsidies for private schools. The "Hogwarts model" of basing education on the 19th century English public school needs to go.
The NZ education system needs to turn out kids who, whatever their abilitiy level or background, are able to lead fulfilled lives.
If we did that, incidentally, we'd reduce a lot of the problems of substance abuse, gambling, crime and other social dysfunction. Without the authoritarian approach of banning everything to protect the disadvantaged.
</Realistic Policy>
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Most of the international studies a flawed in that they compare across countries and many of those countries have the same type of watered down system we have. I would like to see the comparison over time in our own country with standards slowly going up. For example comparing a 7th form science graduate now to one 50 years ago. But no one ever does those studies so I can't give you the hard evidence. But it is there - all you have to do is look around. Take for example the rise of pseudoscience. While I admit there has been a concerted effort to discredit science and raise pseudoscience, that could not have happened if our education system had been robust.
Now we have thousands employed in watered down fields where a little bit of knowledge really is a dangerous thing.
One of the great problems with the system at present is that there is this push for "independent thought", "problem solving", "individual research", active learning and the like before the pupils have even been given the tools to do this with. That is why we see this dichotomy between the successes* of the system nd the failures that the archaic left-right divide needs to create in order to keep the political elite in power, and food on minto's table whatever he does for a living.
There is another way - respect each others individuality without being jealous of each other. But in NZ that will really be the frosty friday. Because parents always interpret the system narrowly in their own frame of reference the majority hates the person who crosses the finish line first. But we could have a country where there are enough finish lines to go round if we cahnged our attidudes.
* not quite as successful as Russell would have us believe, but successful none the less. Real success will be when they can stay and do their thing here!
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Funnily enough, this is in an environment where the teacher as orchestra conductor is turned on it's head to teacher as another player in the band.
This is how we are being trained at Waikato Uni (Graduate Diploma Teaching (Secondary).
Unfortunately the reality in the classroom doesn't always bear this out... not because of the students or teachers but because of other issues such as time, resources, lack of quality professional development, class sizes.... we always try out best though!!
As a teacher, when you do run a unit in this way, or even an individual lesson, the difference is truly exciting. Actively engaging the students in meaningful learning gives me a real buzz. The students notice the difference too - their eyes just light up.
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KevinHicks - do you want to reveal how long ago you went to school and where?
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"adequate supply of high-end graduates"
No, and the ones that are go overseas. We would have a successful system if they were so bright that they could figure out how to solve the problems here.
We have few elite educational facilities and we dont create enough elite "graduates" (in a broad sense, not just academic). If you really wanted to solve the problems of "the system failing this group" or "becoming underclass", you would encourage elite competitive education and then you would pay its products properly and sick them onto solving these problems.
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I went to Auckland Grammar 1968-72. Being in the bottom classes there saved my bacon, although its not the right school for everyone.
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And why do you get excited about Unlimited?
I am assuming it's not the content or the curriculum that excites - same old same old, but the delivery and choices it offersIt's a bit of both, actually. It's the amount of control the kids have over what they learn, and the breadth of the choices they have. If you go here you can see the kind of thing on offer. Then you go to somewhere like Riccarton (which btw is a perfectly good school, I have friends whose kids went there and loved it) and you're back to your traditional core curriculum and a couple of optionals that you choose from a ridiculously limited list, and it's just so underwhelming.
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Kevin, I have to say that I think you're being more than a little nostalgic. I remember how the education system in the '70s and '80s was failing kids at age 15 and assuming they'd get jobs regardless because that's what happened in the '40s, '50s and '60s. We've now got a system that much better reflects the realities of the NZ and international labour market(s) and provides far more opportunities for ongoing learning. You are obviously frustrated by some behavioural characteristic you're encountering but I don't think that's the fault of the education system
Rich, your post above is fantastically well written; thanks.
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And why do you get excited about Unlimited?
I am assuming it's not the content or the curriculum that excites - same old same old, but the delivery and choices it offers
I am afraid that is what seems to be missing from this review - though I have only had a quick scan of it.
Where are the exciting new and inclusive methods of delivery that will reflect emerging communication systems and technology ?Jean, I'm not sure either about curriculum details etc but the system does seem to be changing to accommodate variety. For example with NCEA our daughter at year 11 is doing NCEA at levels one, two and three. But it's not the be all and end all. The primary focus is on her interests and achieving her goals which are set at the start of each term, monitored and ticked off at the end of the term. Actually in our case it is much looser than that. We hardly take any notice of even of that process any more (parents are involved in a three way meeting to set goals with student and teacher), she just gets on with it and the administrative and NCEA type boxes are ticked after the fact.
The other significant change is that these schools sit under the state school umbrella as schools with a ‘special character’. Again I don’t know what the exact law is surrounding that but it is another welcome change which allows variety to flourish.
With regard to technology it’s pretty much all-pervasive. Our daughter has a Mac notebook which goes with her everywhere and everything is done on it. Again I’m not really up with all the ins and outs but it is a very tech savvy learning environment.
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This is how we are being trained at Waikato Uni (Graduate Diploma Teaching (Secondary).
Unfortunately the reality in the classroom doesn't always bear this out... not because of the students or teachers but because of other issues such as time, resources, lack of quality professional development, class sizes.... we always try out best though!!
I think this is where the difficulties lie. With Unlimited it's not really on for kids to be bundled off to school and forgotten about. Parents and wider community have to be involved. It's not a very 'industrially efficient' form of education and needs wide support.
Best wishes with the career Max, your country needs you!
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We have a reasonable education system for churning out people qualified to enter the international labour market and for "call centre staff" for local consumption as someone alluded to above.
I am not nostalgic at all - I think we should be doing better than those days but in science and technology (my field) we are not. Now you may say that because we now have greater capacity to train policy analysts and bossy bureaucrats that we have progressed.
The problem is that it is not sustainable - while there may be a worldwide demand for these people because all western nations are having the same teabreak as us - doesnt mean that the bubble wont burst eventually. Why can't NZ seize this opportunity, just for once, and progress the knowledge economy in the hope of getting ahead of the field and being more self sufficient in the bad times.
The problem is that science and technology requires discipline, memory, problem solving ability, dedication, entrapreneurship etc and our system is not good at that because it may make the "underclass" feel bad about themselves. In actuality it would go a long way toward's solving the problems we have.
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Kevin, I'm not sure we're going to get any closer to an agreement or even to an agreed diagnosis. The indicators I've seen suggests we're doing comparatively well in maths and sciences, ahead of many other first world nations, and that we're continuing to improve so I really don't see any evidence in support of your claim.
I didn't, by the way, take any offence at the bossy bureaucrat line... and have so far resisted making any comment about the plutocrats at Auckland Grammer.
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I don't believe NZ has a serious lack of smart people.
As a country of 4 million, we are never going to have a particularly good match between available specialists and jobs.
There is a healthy interchange process with New Zealanders working overseas and people from abroad coming here to work. It helps that NZ is (at the moment) an attractive working destination for many people - especially, I've noticed, Americans wanting to escape the Bush regime.
If individual businesses can't hire the people they want, then in my experience it's usually because their opportunity or salary package isn't competitive.
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not quite as successful as Russell would have us believe, but successful none the less. Real success will be when they can stay and do their thing here!
Ahem. What's your source for that smackdown?
From a summary of PISA 2003:
PISA 2003 (Programme for International Student Assessment) assessed students in reading, mathematics, science and problem solving. Overall the PISA study found that New Zealand was a leader compared to other English speaking countries. New Zealand ranks 3rd out of 31 in the world in literacy, 3rd in Mathematics and 6th in science.
Expressed slightly differently:
PISA 2003: The mean performance of New Zealand 15 year olds was significantly higher than the OECD mean for each of the four areas assessed in 2003 (reading, mathematical and science literacy, and problem solving). Finland was the only country that performed significantly better than New Zealand in reading and only four countries achieved a result that was significantly better than New Zealand in mathematics and science. Results from PISA 2006 are due at the end of 2007.
And PISA 2000, from the Beehive website (the actual link to the report on the MinEdu website is broken - duh):
Of particular interest to secondary schools was the recent launch of the PISA report in a New Zealand context, which I released at a Secondary Principal Literacy Workshop in Porirua. The Programme for International Student Assessment ranks the average literacy of New Zealand 15-year-old students to be in the top three OECD countries.
Despite this excellent result, the survey results also blow away elements of our egalitarian image. The report has highlighted much wider disparities in our levels of literacy than some other high-achieving nations, including Finland, Canada, and Korea. The report reinforces the Government's decision to fund new and expanded assessment tools and literacy programmes in both primary and secondary schools.
As you note, the fact that our top students are great doesn't absolve us of responsiblity for the fact that the gap with non-achievers is widening.
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Finland was the only country that performed significantly better than New Zealand in reading
As in reading the instructions for the gun:
Load, Aim, Fire(sorry but I couldn't resist)
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^^^^^ That's what I've been saying ^^^^^. Happy to have another say it too!
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oppps, the RB post, not the RoO post.
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