Hard News: The Casino
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you shouldn't fight the free distribution of your work but use it to promote yourself and then come up with other ideas to bring in money.
1 - why don't you get out on the road doing live performances of your books.
Which authors do all over the place, take books with them, sign them and sell them. It's called marketing, rob.
2 - merchandise - T shirts, and souvenir teaspoons. a very lucrative market to sell while doing your 'gig's.
Yes, that's another potential revenue stream
3 - Don't be seen to object to people taking your stuff for free or protecting any income streams that you may already have set up. this will be painted as you attacking your audience. Why would you go out of your way to inconvenience people who are you fans and show it by grabbing your works however they can?. (free off the internet being the easiest and cheapest). Apparently it progress when its at your expense, don't fight it.
No, not really a revenue stream, unless you measure wealth in your own bile. You do have to realise that the world changes around you and what was a sensible investment some years ago, may not have kept up. Being flexible and able to adjust will go a long way, rob.
4 - remember that because you create this stuff you owe society because you've unintentionally made something that it sees as culture, and culture doesn't belong to you. Be grateful for having the privileged of contributing and show that gratitude by keeping your mouth shut if you object to a low standard of living.
Sadly, the majority of those who contribute to cultural wealth have had to put up with this situation for hundreds of years. Kit Marlowe was one of the most successful playwrights of his time, well respected and his work has come through to the 21st century without the intervention of Mr Garrick. But he was never wealthy, except momentarily. Shakespeare, his contemporary, was well-off before he started writing plays. Dickens, a later writer, was successful because there was a market hungry for the penny dreadfuls and bought his work in serial form. Had they had to pay the full price of a novel, he might not have been quite as successful. But that doesn't affect the quality of his art.
Many artists and writers have only found success after their death. And for every JK Rowling, there's lots that never get published, let alone make a living.
It's called the way of the world, rob.
No one likes a whiner.
I'm sure you'll find a friend soon, anyway
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I'm sure you'll find a friend soon, anyway
I agree with what robbery writes some of the time. I wouldn't want him to go away because he thought everyone here was his enemy. I'm saying this because it might help Rob lose his "lone voice of sanity" tone that definitely irritates a lot of people.
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Good luck with that.
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I'm sure you'll find a friend soon, anyway
Keeping it seemly, please ...
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Good luck with that. :)
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I missed the irony.
I guess one mans irony is an other's snark, but I would have thought the souvenir teaspoons comment was a give away.
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Oh well, publish your irony & hope it's picked-up.
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Hmmm...where to start?
First of all, robbery- that's what I call the Cory Doctorow model, and you're absolutely right: there are not a few people out there who earnestly think it's the future, the only way, the model of buisness that will supercede all others.
It is dependent on people who WANT to have websites,market themselves, go to fan/literary gatherings, are ego-driven to an extent I can not imagine - or who are living in an area with a huge catchment
of internet-savvy readers; have easy access to the gatherings, and the kind of writing that appeals to a large number of people. Gaiman (who I really respect & enjoy,) does it also.That's fine.
Not everybody wants to do that.
Actually, not a lot of writers want to do that
http://www.penguin.co.uk/static/cs/uk/0/penguin_events/index.html
Mark- do you realise that PUBLISHERS put authors 'on the road'? They have *publicists* who do all the boring crap(contacting media,arranging travel and hotels/whatever) and *local booksellers* generally front up to sell the bloody books? Authors do not scurry round the traps with knapsacks of books - o, wait a moment, you wouldnt know that would you?O. and I wont go into much more of your post except for 2 things:
Christopher Marlowe did come from a relatively wealthy background
and Shakespeare didnt; his glover father did later become rich enough, politically powerful enough to apply for a coat of arms-Marlowe was almost certainly a spy, a hothead, a drunkard, and a homosexual -matters that, in Elizabethan England, did not ensure longevity.
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"lone voice of sanity" tone
I don't feel I have that tone, and I'm certainly not the lone voice on that side of the debate (kyle, islander, gio, keir etc etc all make valid arguments on their own), but you would have to be slightly insane to take it up here seeing as how divided the simple subject of media seems to makes people.
I'm sure you'll find a friend soon, anyway
you're my friend mark, now that I've learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. that was the whole point of my 'advice' to islander. don't fight it, join the pod people, it feels good.
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but you would have to be slightly insane to take it up here seeing as how divided the simple subject of media seems to makes people.
Insane or pugnacious. Sometimes there's not much difference.
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"lone voice of sanity"
also that comment was in response to russell attempt to paint me as trying to pick one member of his united clan off and turn them against him. I've never seen PA like that ,although there is definite pressure to conform in the copyright debate.
him making common cause with one member of the clan by dumping on the others
that's just a little strange to see written here.
Russell if one indie label dude from the pits of the south island can shake you you're going to have big problem speaking on these issues against well informed lawyer types. -
rob, I don't see PA like that either, but there may be other opinions ;-). Perhaps I was projecting a feeling on you that is not there. My comment is based on reading many of your posts on many topics. It's pretty hard to avoid the tone of someone arguing against a crowd, when that is exactly what is happening. But I don't think it's a tone that helps much, so I'm letting you know that you're not always alone in your thoughts.
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It's called the way of the world, rob.
:) mark, sorry, just got round to reading your post, I feel I've done good for you tonight.
Hopefully as your tone suggests you got worked up and that's got to be the equivalent of a good 6 km jog just there in heart rate increase. you'll thank me for it in your old age.besides you got me all wrong, I was trying to be helpful for writers and pass on the lessons you learned me, honest, i'm one of you, I am clan.
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many of your posts on many topics.
I've only ever contributed to music and copyright threads and one other, the veitch thing.
so I'm letting you know that you're not always alone in your thoughts.
appreciated. although I've never thought I was, there have been some brilliant insightful and well written posts by many people, who hold views that aren't polarised, they just tend to get shouted down a bit, like marks tirade above which doesn't bug me but its not a good look.
but back to topic. the writing world and they're imminent impact with digital.
at the moment we don't see to be as far along the track of righteous indignation that we have toward music and film. that's interesting in itself.
maybe the kids don't give a shit about books and that's what drove the tide against music and film and isn't driving it against books.but people here have been more respectful in discussion of copyright and book issues. why?
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__him making common cause with one member of the clan by dumping on the others__
that's just a little strange to see written here.
Russell if one indie label dude from the pits of the south island can shake you you're going to have big problem speaking on these issues against well informed lawyer types.I'm not even sure what you mean by that, but I'll try not to bite.
I suppose it's my fault, but this seems to have become yet another conversation about you, Rob.
Do you actually have anything to say about T2S on the Kindle and author royalties? Seriously.
but people here have been more respectful in discussion of copyright and book issues. why?
I think "people here" are respectful as a rule. It's what makes the place work, and I try and maintain that. Now, did you have anything to say on the actual topic or on arguments advanced by other contributors?
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I have no legal knowledge about Kindles or copyrights, nor am I an author. So I won't venture to comment on those things. What I do want to say is this. No-one on this forum has the right to address someone by their first name, when, in fact, they choose to use a pseudonym. I don't believe that's fair, nor is it good internet etiquette. We are incredibly honoured that people who are of great cultural importance in this nation choose to post here. There are a few. Some choose to use their "real" names, some do not. Let's all respect that. I fear that should people not want to be "outed" they will not continue to come here, and give us their valuable points of view.
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Oh, and lest I forget, I'm with Russell. I find casinos joyless, dreary places. I'm incredibly bummed that Sky City also has a great theatre.
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It is dependent on people who WANT to have websites,market themselves, go to fan/literary gatherings, are ego-driven to an extent I can not imagine - or who are living in an area with a huge catchment
of internet-savvy readers; have easy access to the gatherings, and the kind of writing that appeals to a large number of people. Gaiman (who I really respect & enjoy,) does it also.I don't think there are many people who can do what Gaiman does: writing longform fiction and a Twitter stream and everything in-between.
But it does seem that media appearances are crucial for new book sales, if only because (in NZ especially) there isn't the budget for conventional marketing.
Did you have a view on the accounting of audiobook sales as ancillary (ie: lesser) royalties by publishers? That seems a rort to me.
Elsewhere ...
Interesting article on small presses in Canada and the way they use the internet.
Penguin's profits were up 26% last year, but other large houses ain't doing so well.
US book sales rose 4.4% to more than 36 billion in the last Book Industry Trends survey. I presume a few people will be very interested in the next one when it's published in May.
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Jackie I agree with that sentiment on pseudonyms. But there is a flipside to using them - people will take you at face value. Expecting anything else is also not good internet etiquette. It's all or nothing with pseudonyms.
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but people here have been more respectful in discussion of copyright and book issues. why?
I'd observe that - up until this point - the actual topic under discussion was the kindle's text-to-speech, which is surely not a matter of pirating in any usual sense. The question was whether and how it was any kind of copyright issue at all and if so if it was worth bothering with.
It seemed to me your response was kind of irrelevant to that.
If it kicks of a discussion on book rights well and good, but I tend to avoid general copyright threads because by now everyone seems to have said, and listened to, everything they want to.
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... that is, I was just speculating that it was less acrimonious because it wasn't about what you thought it was.
Also because the thread is shorter.
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Do you actually have anything to say about T2S on the Kindle and author royalties? Seriously.
seriously I did say something related to that discussion.
It's disappointing that you've chosen to turn it into another personal fight with you, and reading your comments its clear you are not addressing the content of what I said but merely that it was me who said them.the text to speech function on kindle is a small small thing from my perspective hardly worth worrying about, but obviously media owners see it as a thin edge of a wedge. That they have managed to get someone to disable it is impressive. its their 'DRM battle' or one of them and they achieved it successfully
As Islander has highlighted some writers have fought quite strongly to maintain control of their material in the dangerous digital world. As soon as it hits the web in an un-hindered un-control form they know they're fucked. They know it cos they've watched other media be consumed by it before.Tspoons, t shirts and live performances of their work aren't going to cut it. Its helpful to see that it won't cut it for writers and recognise that for some in music its also not an acceptable solution to their issues.
Music's fight to maintain control of its media has played out very differently and the backlash of attempts to maintain control over it have been of many orders of magnitude worse.
for you to say that's an irrelevant observation says a lot about something. I'm bored with that something, you should be too if you really want open debate on topics raised here and not just polite agreement that you are correct yet again.
To restate - my original post in this thread dealt directly with parts of this discussion as related to the overall copyright and media control debate which T2S on the kindle is related to.
it got you another 3 pages of discussion so far and Mark got pseudo angry yet again. if I really said a non event the correct response would be silence. -
the overall copyright and media control debate which T2S on the kindle is related to
Personally, for threading purposes, I'd have said while talk of the kindle may contribute to wider copyright discussion, wider copyright arguments are - as things stand - tangential to the kindle debate.
I prefer the general argument in the copyright thread because then I can avoid it more easily.
Never mind. I obviously need assistance. In what way does the function breach copyright?
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In what way does the function breach copyright?
more to do with control of media, which relates to copyright which is to do with control of media.
I hear you on the avoiding copyright thread discussion :) -
There might be some interesting rationalisations coming our way by the time the next instalment of Harry Potter is shared the p2p way.
That's actually how I read HP7 - or at least, I found a pdf of what looked like an unproofed version of the book.
I did it because all the damn stores sold out, so I had to wait another 3 or 4 days before I was able to buy an actual copy, and that wasn't working for me.
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