Hard News: Right This Time?
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you're talking tame as in not wild not tame as in iti...eh :)
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If you don't like the rules, don't play the game, but don't start claiming that your ethnicity gives you a free pass to break the rules.
Well, I would think this whole thread was about Maori trying to figure out their best path forward with the Treaty and this is probably a very good example of Hone and his frustration with what he sees as hypocritical behaviour. On one hand we have Rodney taking advantage of perks that only a few in Parliament have got and has since been repealed (possibly because it was unfair) then as soon as Hone was honest to the public when asked, he is seen as the radical Maori who has been naughty for some time. He is Te Tai Tokerau MP voted in by NZer's that should have had some idea of the Harawira Family. These voters were ordinary NZer's who wanted him to represent them.The Maori Party formed because of the foreshore and seabed Act. Hone campaigned with his well known protesting against the Treaty of Waitangi.(breaking the rules,no?) It must be a laugh to him to watch Turia and Sharples pander to Key. More often than not he looks like a Green Party than Maori Party MP. This is not an MP who is well experienced in Parliament and has often asked about protocol in the House but if he thinks he sees hypocrisy he calls 'bullshit' as we have all heard.I don't think he intentionally disrespects. He just isn't the most eloquent user of the English language
(devils advocate here alongside Dubmugga :) -
i'm all for playing the game by your own rules and like hone, fuck what whitey thinks.
It's hardly as if the criticism is coming exclusively along racial lines.
On one hand we have Rodney taking advantage of perks that only a few in Parliament have got and has since been repealed (possibly because it was unfair) then as soon as Hone was honest to the public when asked, he is seen as the radical Maori who has been naughty for some time.
Given the Weekend Herald's headline is about Hide, you can hardly say Hide's getting away with it. Hone's not being radical, or naughty. I think he's just playing silly buggers.
Telling your party leader you were sick when you were actually in Paris - that's teenage stuff. It's got attention because it was silly, because there were plenty of ways he could have done the same thing legitimately, and because he then threw a foul-mouthed tantrum when he was called on it. I don't think it's corrupt or wasting taxpayers' money or whatever, I just think it's childish.
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I guess sometimes you just can't win, especially if you are brown, less likely if you're Brownlee.
Hone has taken the line of "Change the system from within"
He is perfectly entitled to call "Bullshit" when he perceives it. Blingglish twists the rules on accommodation expenses and there is much wringing of hands and "Well yes"'ing and blah blah. Philip Field gets crucified for helping a refugee for Koha. Rodney gets to take his girlfriend on happy holls and Winston gets shafted for not declaring Party donations, so let's not mention Brash and the Brethren at this point.
So how are we supposed to effect change?
If you try to do it from the inside by exposing hypocrisy you get reamed, if you try to do it from the outside, well, just ask Tama Iti. -
and exactly what of whiteys rules did he break..
And Hone actually got permission from the person he was having the meeting with to forego said meeting the next day.Hone paid his wifes fare himself. He spoke to the woman in Brussels himself,(got permission) and emailed a man he knew without expecting (or caring) if the language was correct.
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I don't think it's corrupt or wasting taxpayers' money or whatever, I just think it's childish.
So what do you suggest Lucy? the Naughty step or a Smack?.
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I don't think it's corrupt or wasting taxpayers' money or whatever, I just think it's childish.
Maybe. I don't think he cared how anyone felt Perhaps he is a bit childish, not punishable offence though. Maybe he wasn't asked where he was. Read somewhere, Turia assumed he was sick, says she didn't ask, he didn't tell to me. Storm in a teacup.Profanity in an email happens all the time. Just not the most beautiful prose.
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So what do you suggest Lucy? the Naughty step or a Smack?.
Oh, definitely the Naughty Step.
And Hone actually got permission from the person he was having the meeting with to forego said meeting the next day.Hone paid his wifes fare himself. He spoke to the woman in Brussels himself,(got permission)
The point is: being an MP representing NZ is not like being on a school trip. You can't "get permission" to skip it. Or, well, you can, but a) I suspect that the chairperson wouldn't have felt it was their place to tell a foreign delegate what to do and b) so what? You're still missing a meeting you got sent to Europe to attend because, basically, you think it's too boring to bother with. Just the attitude we want in our MPs, right?
I don't think he cared how anyone felt Perhaps he is a bit childish, not punishable offence though.
Well, here's the tough thing about choosing to be an MP and "play by whitey's rules": your actions are publicly judged. He might not care about what other people think, but he's a fool if he thinks what other people think doesn't matter in the context of his career as an MP.
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The point is: being an MP representing NZ is not like being on a school trip
So what are all the Nat boys doing in Japan for a couple of dinner parties and Rugby games? Oh that's right, photo op of John announcing a definite knighthood for Richie Mc whatever his name is. Slick timing or urgent meetings?
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"play by whitey's rules": your actions are publicly judged. He might not care about what other people think, but he's a fool if he thinks what other people think doesn't matter in the context of his career as an MP.
The point is he is not white. he has always done things as a Maori activist and he made it to Parliament. He got permission. Helps if you are brown skinned to know how that feels.If his party don't like him, no matter, it is his electorate, he can stay as an independent.
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what legal recourse do i have to protect the shellfish beds from people constantly driving over it to launch their boats at low tide ?
You could lobby the council to introduce a bylaw banning vehicles from the beach.
Or you could try and persuade central government to generally ban cars from beaches, as is the law in most other countries.
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So what are all the Nat boys doing in Japan for a couple of dinner parties and Rugby games? Oh that's right, photo op of John announcing a definite knighthood for Richie Mc whatever his name is. Slick timing or urgent meetings?
I didn't say those sort of trips aren't a bit pathetic; they are, and we should ask more questions about why they're supposedly necessary. But there's a difference between "entire trip's premise is dodgy, but technically official" and "bunking off from official business, then swearing at people when they ask about it".
He got permission
I guess what I'm trying to say that he's an adult and it's not about "getting permission", it's about monitoring your *own* behaviour. And, what, he's Maori so he doesn't have to?
If his party don't like him, no matter, it is his electorate, he can stay as an independent.
Yes, he can. Doesn't mean his party - or the rest of us - can't critique his behaviour.
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New Zealand is consistantly voted just about the least corrupt country in the world.
Hide and Harawira are discovering why.
We have high standards when it comes to playing cute with public money in this country.
And I am not of a mind to think we should start changing those standards just because Hone Harawira has the astonishing hubris of considering himself a one man band payback for colonialism.
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i want to play cowbell in hone's band cos we could always do with more cowbell eh ?
You could lobby the council to introduce a bylaw banning vehicles from the beach.
Or you could try and persuade central government to generally ban cars from beaches, as is the law in most other countries.
i'm gonna get all up in nick smiths face i think. him being a nelson mp, environment minister, having local knowledge and history with the parties involved here.
so if they do repeal the foreshore and seabed thing and its not like the govt has anything better to replace the current legislation with or probably is ever likely to have, then this particular piece of real estate would automatically revert back to ngati tama ownership as has been proven in courts of law and they can rightfully blockade the estuary again...yeah ?
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Barry Brailsford produced 2 useful books - "The Tattooed Land" and "Greenstone Trails." I am referring to the original editions - not the fantasy-skews he introduced into them later on
He was commissioned by Kai Tahu to write a history of Ngai Tahu whanui - and he veered away markedly from the commission." Songs of Waitaha" is the silly result. He *didnt* research that book - his self-described method of working was to listen to people he described as Waitaha kaumatua (most of them were more Kati Mamoe & Kai Tahu than Waitaha - and they were all conveniently dead when "Song of Waitaha" was pusblished) drawingdoodling *but not taking notes.* That came later after he'd dreamed on the doodles. By this time, 1990s, he left behind all pretence of being an historian, and was calling himself as a 'dancing leprechaun' and 'a shaman.' (Claiming to be Rakaihautu reincarnated came a bit later.)
He fits right in with Gary Cook, Ross Wiseman, Gavin Menzies and Rex Gilmour.
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Glad 'to see' you are back there Islander :)
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With my shiney bright left eye reading to *the second bottom line* on the chart - sans contact lens! Never been able to do that before!
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it still doesnt take away from the fact that ngai tahu were little more than a bunch of marauding cannibals from the east coast of the nth island who barely beat the pakeha to the sth island and the people brailsford talked to had more waitaha blood 'native' to the sth island than any 'pure' ngai tahu you could ever hope to meet and were probably the only ones capable of retelling the histories and tradtions of waitaha because by that time both ngati mamoe and ngai tahu had virtually exterminated any trace of them.
...maybe he should have written his book that way?
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Woohoo! (winks with her faulty left eye ;)
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dubmugga, you clearly dont know Ngai Tahu whanui histpries & whakapapa. Kai Tahu did *not* exterminate the Waitaha tribes (I can whakapapa to Kati Hawea through my maternal great-grandfather) and neither did Kati Mamoe (to whom I can also whakapapa.) There was more intermarriage than killing. And we were established far south (as in Murihiku & Rakiura), as well as in northern areas and on Tai Poutini, in Moki's time.
Way before my Pakeha forebears arrived. Or any Pakeha settled.But you clearly prefer fantasies-
if you ever want an antidote to Brailsford's tripe (I am referring to his later work) try reading Bill Dacker or Atholl Anderson.
(Sofie - winks back! 9kg of box is headed your & Steve's way.)
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big deal islander, when you say, way before, what are you talking about, 100 years or so, maybe six generations at most? hardly prehistory is it ?
funnily enough i can whakapapa back to my paternal great grandfather who was irish and arrived in NZ maybe about four generations after ngai tahu but not long enough that they still were'nt going about consolidating their claims by conquest. it doesnt sound as mystical or indigenously fantastic as your ancestry. however on my mothers maternal side i could go way back to probably the original settlers of NZ.
and i would think there was way more killing and eating than there was intermarriage, with the intermarriage you speak of probably having been forced from enslaved high born females to form alliances and assimliate land titles.
and to be honest you and athol know as little about what went on during waitaha times and what the original settlers painted on rocks as brailsford does or me for that matter. its not that i prefer fantasy it's just that there is way more in my philosophy that can be dreamt of by your ancestry.
simple fact is the green stone trails were not blazed by ngai tahu.
BTW this is a good read ;)
http://www.archive.org/stream/talesofbankspeni00jacoiala/talesofbankspeni00jacoiala_djvu.txt
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Going from the end of your post- nobody has suggested that the pounemu trading paths were *ever* blazed by Kai Tahu .
The Waitaha grouping of tribes (there was never just 'Waitaha' - several hapu who preferred to be called by their whanau/hapu name are lumped in together) werent the only people who painted on rocks.
There are two, very different, styles, and sets of pigments. And rock drawings were being made right up until the 1800s.Proof about your claim that the intermarriage "probably having been forced from enslaved highborn females"? Check the whakapapa lines.
You come from Kahui tipua? My!
NOBODY knows who were the original settlers of Te Wahi Pounemu.
We know they were Polynesians, is all-I am talking13 generations on my Kai Tahu lines, and 17-19 generations on my other southern lines.
A wee bit more than a century or so.
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haha...fair enough add another 3 hundred years and you win the chocolate ika, might want to share it with your east coast ancestors :P
on a serious note though, do the whakapapa lines say why or how the marriages came to be ?
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*If* they were forced marriages on enslaved rakatira/ariki women, the whakapapa would certainly say this (not least from the whanau line from whence the women came!)
But as you know - a slave had no mana - and no highborn would so contaminate his offsprings' bloodlines.
'Forced' is another kettle of chocolate ika- you agree to marry a certain personage because your father or brother/s will thereby live?
That kind of (very real)force has been going on since H.sap sap came into being.There is *a lot* of material as to how the various marriages came to be - I'd refer you to Te Maire Tau et al if you want.It is not -attention-grabbing, but it is scholarship that has not only been tested by academia, but also & especially, pan-tribally debated.
Not just Kai Tahu whanui being creative-
And, everyone who is interested knows about Hemo & Whatiri & Tahu-potiki and the travelling south, and the Kati Porou etc. links.
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you agree to marry a certain personage because your father or brother/s will thereby live?
yeah what was practised among the captured bluebloods was not quite enslavement but in those instances not something you'd neccessarily want the rellies to know or get recorded in the annals of history either unless you wanted savage retribution exacted for generations.
but nah sweet as, i'll take your word for it as you take the word of your ancetors for it cos its not like they had any reason to lie:)
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