Hard News: Rape and unreason
304 Responses
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This has echoes of the Uncovered Meat controversy in Oz a few years back, but without the racially charged dimension of an illiberal imam.
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BenWilson, in reply to
It was absolutely clear to me, from evidence presented by the victim and witnesses (the accused didn’t testify) that there was no way any reasonable person could believe they had consent after physically overpowering someone and detaining them.
That's quite an astonishing story, especially since the flatmates actually called the police. This isn't even a "his word against hers" story, but one about whether there is a huge sector of the population who really do believe women deserve to get raped if they make certain mistakes.
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It's worth remembering that Bob Jones did this once and got away with it without serving any prison time at all.
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Danielle, in reply to
whether there is a huge sector of the population who really do believe women deserve to get raped if they make certain mistakes
I don't think there's a "whether" involved.
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BenWilson, in reply to
True, the real question is "how huge?"
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He made two young women complicit in their own sexual assault, and he essentially drew up the proposition of deserving and undeserving rape victims. I’m sure that many Herald journalists won’t be proud to have their work published alongside Jones’ crap. Perhaps it’s time to ask whether they should have to.
No perhaps about it. Bob Jones deserves all the contempt he's getting, but let's not forget that his copy wasn't set, printed and posted on the Herald website sight unseen by senior editorial staff. If editor-in-chief Tim Murphy is happy to have rape apologist bullshit like this published on his watch, then I think it's time for journalists and their union to start asking some pointed questions about what 'sensible precautions' female NZH staff are expected to take to avoid being assaulted out and about, or subjected to workplace sexual harassment.
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BenWilson, in reply to
what ‘sensible precautions’ female NZH staff are expected to take to avoid being assaulted out and about
Definitely don't disturb the man when he's fishing.
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
That’s quite an astonishing story, especially since the flatmates actually called the police.
Yes, and I woulda thunk that her getting up and leaving would've been a fairly clear "no", and the fact he dragged her back inside and locked his flatmates out kinda suggests that maybe she wasn't so willing and that perhaps a largeish amount of force was used.
My jury duty experience was a trial of a guy accused of sexually assaulting a 5 year old girl. The trial was abandoned because of a lack of evidence - the prosecution's expert witness screwed it up by asking leading questions. That was frustrating enough.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I couldn’t possibly comment.
You’re the lucky one. I’ve been stuck in an increasingly weird Twitter exchange about all this with an ex-cop. Gah.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Yeah, the veiled threats are pretty creepy. I'm getting a strong hint of a one of the kiwiblog trolls in there.
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(Sir) Bob Jones does not tolerate people who use cellar telephones in his presence. He sees sunglasses as an abomination. He lives in a gated and secure enclave looking down on the Hutt Valley, Wellington and the wilds of Cook Strait. As he sips his vintage wines, surveys his collected portraits off famous puglists and counts his money (like Scrooge Mc Duck) he often realises how lonely and lofty is his life's calling... That's when inspiration strikes and electrifies his fingers... he is then ready to offer some of his wisdom to ordinary and less gifted men and women... It would be simply churlish for the NZ Herald to "spike" his ravings.
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Bob Jones should be made to watch "It's Your Fault"
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
And then when it's bedtime he has a nice milo, crawls into bed, pulls the blanket up snugly around him, cuddles his teddy bear tightly, and sighs, wishing his mummy were still here to read him a bedtime story.
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TRIGGER WARNING
The 'don't walk in the dark' advice gives me the creeps. It means you make decisions to stay where you shouldn't, because you are told it is more dangerous to be alone.
When I was 15 I had a friend stay the night,and my brother, his friends and I had a bit of a party (yes, we were drinking). In the morning she was gone. I phoned her and berated her for having walked home to a less than salubrious part of Mt Roskill on her own in the dark at 3am.
It was only 20 years later that she told me that she ran home after one of my brother's friends had sex with her. Without her consent. He raped her.
And among my group of girlfriends, this scenario is most commonly is how rape happens.
So, do we tell our daughters not to go to trusted friend's places?? Or do we tell our sons not to rape??
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
I’ve been stuck in an increasingly weird Twitter exchange about all this with an ex-cop.
Yup that is an odd one. I wonder how he'd go at Eden Park when the ref makes a questionable call.
It's not even clear if he has any point to make other than you shouldn't use bad words to describe Mr Jones.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Definitely don’t disturb the man when he’s fishing.
I'm being dead serious, Ben. More than one someone had to at least cast their eyes over that pile of shit before it was printed. And none of them are people I'd have any confidence in going to if I was assaulted by a source out in the field, let alone sexually harassed at the office, because I don't think I'd really be up for a grilling on whether I took suitable "precautions" (like going to ground at nightfall like a reverse vampire) or whether my ankles happened to be provocatively exposed.
But, hey... not so long ago one "reasonable precaution" for women in the newspaper trade was not letting them work on anything more risky than typing up scone recipes and hard hitting reportage on this season's hemlines. I'm sure Tim and Bob would approve.
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A fact check on Bob Jones claim that 99.9999% of men aren't rapists:
http://www.statschat.org.nz/2013/10/01/making-up-numbers/
because it would imply there were about 20 in NZ. You will see that our own Graeme Edgeler picks nits in the comments regarding the definitions used.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
Or do we tell our sons not to rape??
I never had to be told. But yes, apparently we need to tell our children this because otherwise some of them grow up to be like Bob Jones believing it's a reasonable excuse if she looks hot ....ugh.
And as an aside did you ever tell your brother? I wonder how many "mates" don't realise just how low their friends will stoop.
Sorry that sounds angry and accusatory towards your brother but it is meant generally rather than specifically. And frankly this whole incident (pathetic word really) has made me angry.
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Emma Hart, in reply to
Or do we tell our sons not to rape??
I never had to be told.
But it's not "don't jump out of the bushes and violently sexually assault a stranger." It's make sure you have consent. Check in - and check in afterwards. Verbally express what you want. Back off at "I don't know," don't push. And yes, that goes for girls as well, but we still have a culture that teaches young men that they're Entitled.
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Islander, in reply to
Definitely don’t disturb the man when he’s fishing.
Nah, nah, quite wrong: fishing is a non-sex game (except females seem to be better at it - trust my 60 years of experience) so that should read "DEFINITELY DONT DISTURB THE FISHER WHILST IT IS FISHING"
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Bob Jones, Michael Laws - I refuse to read their rubbish. I guess I'm glad someone does, to hold them (and their constituents) to account. And I guess it's predictable that the tabloids (for me that's all the newspapers available in Auckland) see them as a way to make sales - lowest common denominator and all that.
On a possibly related aspect, I see that Fairfax Oz is dropping their colour supplements to save money. Newspapering ain't what it used to be. -
Islander, in reply to
The only time I have truly wanted to strangle someone was when a photographer got between me & my net & the 'bait were running - "No! No ! Look up here to me and move your net to the side."
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Rochelle Furneaux, in reply to
Check in – and check in afterwards. Verbally express what you want. Back off at “I don’t know,” don’t push.
Exactly Emma. And that's what I taught my son in his early teens... And the problem is, our culture generally has the attitude that people have to put up with certain things - that they're not entitled to set their own boundaries.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Bob Jones, Michael Laws – I refuse to read their rubbish
Sorry to sound like a broken record here, but the real question is why Tim Murphy didn't pick up the phone and tell Bob Jones it wasn't going to run.
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"chris", in reply to
That elephant must be acknowledged. Writing that kind of crap is one thing. Making a professional decision to sanction by way of publishing those views, in a sense institutionally legitimising them, shows very poor if not worse judgement.
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